Talk:Donkey Kong (video game)

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Contents

[edit] older entries

I saw that the main character's name here had been changed to "Mario" (instead of "Jumpman"), and reverted it and changed the "Jumpman" link in the article so that it linked to Mario. If anyone thinks I shouldn't have done so, please discuss it here. Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 20:39, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

i think the name is in fact Jumpman, and the Shigiru Miyamoto article mentions that Mario is a descendant. That would be consistant with Donkey Kong actually being donkey kong junior, as cranky fought jumpman and says so, as well as the fact that shiggy just said so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.32.83.98 (talk • contribs) .

I'm pretty sure that the Donkey part of the name came from a mistranslation of stupid, mistaking donkey for ass. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.9.32.15 (talk • contribs) .

Donkey was the English word listed for stubborn in the Japanese-English dictionary Shigiru used, according to David Sheff's "Game Over." The necessary note will be added. Krupo 01:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I remember I played in my childhood a version of donkey kong in a foldable device with tho cristal liqid screens, very primitive, with two difficulty levels, ``game A` and `game B`, and you had two lives. In the manual there was written that if mario couldnt save the damsel-in-distress (that is, if you lost your first life) his brother Luigui would do the job. I dont remember the year, I´m 34 now, but I was no older than 10 at the time, anyone played this version of donkey kong?


[edit] Cabinet image

What this article really needs is a good image of a Donkey Kong arcade cabinet, and preferably not a rebuilt one. Does anyone have access to such? Anyone have one of these machines still taking quarters at the local Pizza Hut? — BrianSmithson 21:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I have a cabinet, but not a digital camera. (I'd need to do a little work on it first though.) Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 11:54, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Any friends with a digital camera? — BrianSmithson 12:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crazy Kong image

I removed the Crazy Kong image that was recently added to the article. The reason is that the article is already quite heavy on fair-use images, and adding another presses our luck too much in my opinion. Furthermore, I don't think the image is really necessary; Crazy Kong is labeled as a clone in the text of the article, and clones, by definition, are quite similar to the original. — BrianSmithson 19:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough --Larsinio 19:46, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious "See also" removed

I removed a "See also" link to Super Monkey Poop Fight. This was for three reasons: 1) That game seems to have very little to do with Donkey Kong, so it doesn't seem at all pertinent. 2) If it were pertinent, the link should be placed somewhere in the prose of the article, not appended with no thought as to where it might fit best. 3) There's a question of relative notability here. The fact that some obscure Fash game may be a parody of Donkey Kong probably warrants a link to Donkey Kong in the article about said obscure Flash game. The reverse is not true. At any rate, #1 above trumps #2 and #3. Super Monkey Poop Fight is not relevant to this article. — BrianSmithson 20:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Killer Gorilla

Killer Gorilla, which appeared in 1984, was another clone (but with Mario replaced with a weedy looking boy), this time produced by MicroPower. It was available for the BBC Micro and the Amstrad CPC.

Can the person who added this bit please provide a source for the information? There's nothing wrong with mentioning this, but the current article is very careful to cite sources, so any new information should follow suit. Thanks, — BrianSmithson 15:24, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First time claim

I do not think the following statement is true even though they have provided a source for the comment. I can quote sources all day long about a variety of things, but that does not make them true.

Although its origin as a comic strip license played a major part, Donkey Kong marked the first time that the storyline for a video game preceded the game's programming rather than simply being appended as an afterthought.[11]

kingmundi 3:43, 03 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, the fact is that that fact is sourced, and if you wish to dispute the information, the onus is on you. What game preceded Donkey Kong wherein the storyline was developed before the gameplay? — BrianSmithson 02:48, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I will try to dig around and come up with a source, but I would think that some claims are just indefensible. For example, if I found a source that stated little green aliens planted the idea of Donkey Kong in Shigeru Miyamoto head, how would you ever find a source to disprove that? The terminoloy of "the storyline" ... "preceded the game's programming" is just very nebulous in meaning. What programmer would sit down and just start hacking away at a game without some forthought about what the game's story is about? - kingmundi 4:23, 03 May 2006 (UTC)
I think that's the exact implication. Pac-Man and Defender were presumably games first and stories (or no story in the case of Pac-Man) were tacked on once the designers got to the marketing stage. I don't think this precludes the idea of someone, say, deciding that Space Invaders would be about shooting aliens. But that's not really a story except very, very loosely speaking. Donkey Kong's story is simple too, but it does have a specific beginning, middle, and end. Worst case scenario, we can change the writing to say "Author so and so calls it the first game to blah blah blah", thus making it a completely verifiable statement. But as of right now, I'm not sure author so-and-so is wrong. :) — BrianSmithson 11:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I can see that point of view. There is something different about Donkey Kong than the popular games that came before it such as Pac-Man and Space Invaders. But it is such a strong claim about something that is very hard to define (what a programmer was thinking). For example, read this about Pac-man http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-1718312,00.html He wanted to make a game for girls about a character eating and being chased by ghosts. And consider this early game written on a mainframe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnd_%28computer_game%29 The original claim hinges on what exactly is a storyline. I agree that the plot of chasing after an ape that stole your girlfriend is more detailed than eating food and running away from ghosts, or running around in a forest looking for an orb. But utimately, it is a judgement call. I just think the sentence is poorly worded and makes a claim that is very hard to prove and defend. I think it could be re worded to make it more neutral in its claim.
Yeah, I've been investigating a bit on my own, and many text adventure games predate Donkey Kong, including Zork and a Star Trek game. Whether those games have "stories" per se is debatable, but they do have a goal and a conclusion when the player reaches that goal. Would you be satisfied with the wording that "Although its origin as a comic strip license played a major part, Donkey Kong's storyline was more developed than any game that preceded it. In fact, video game historian Chris Kohler claims that it marked the first time that the storyline for a video game preceded the game's programming rather than simply being appended as an afterthought."? The source citation would be the same (Kohler's book). Incidentally, I really wish I could get a copy of Kohler's doctoral thesis; Power-Up is just a dumbed-down version of it. (By the way: Don't forget to sign your comments by typing ~~~~.) — BrianSmithson 11:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Power-up/Up

Only capitalize the first letter of a word in a title if both unites make up a single word. In this case, "Power-up", not "Power-Up". — BrianSmithson 12:53, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TMI on one port

"(also the first version accurate to the original arcade game in a Nintendo console, with a few extras)"

I've removed this twice now. It needes to be sourced, first of all, and it is too much information on an insignificant port, in my opinion. — BrianSmithson 12:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Memory issues on the NES version

An anonymous editor added the phrase in commas to the article: "This screen does not appear in the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) version of the game, due to cartridge memory issues, and some other console versions." I removed it for lack of source citation. This information may be true, and I have no problem with its inclusion provideed a source is provided. — BrianSmithson 22:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ports: what counts?

Should the Nintendo 64 and Nintendo GameCube be listed under ports? The game is on both systems as a minigame within another game, but not on its own. Ace of Sevens 15:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Perhaps a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games will comment? -- BrianSmithson 14:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other games

I removed some long discussions of Rare's DK games and the DK boardgame. This article is about the arcade game only, and it should stay on topic. Those paragraphs would better belong at Donkey Kong, which discusses the character and the series as a whole. -- BrianSmithson 14:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed links to nonexistant articles.

I have changed the article so that the terms maze |maze game , Ron Judy, Al stone, R. Cade and the Video victims, and O. R. Rissman are no longer links. This was done because they linked to articles that did not exist. Please don't change them back unless an article is created.05:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I don't know why that was not signed. 69.156.205.22 06:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC) I also added Don James because he was listed as a college football coach. The only other Don James is listed a writer. There is noting to indicate that either is the warehouse manager listed in this article.69.156.205.22 06:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Build the web. Lack of an article is no reason to delink pertinent items. -- BrianSmithson 16:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
The fact that something isn't a viable topic for an article is, though. Being Nintendo's warehouse manager and having a character named after his wife doesn't exactly make him notable. Ace of Sevens 16:47, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
My video game histories are boxed up now so I can't provide specific details, but when I expanded the article, I made sure that the folks who got links were significant enough to warrant articles. In the case of Judy, Stone, Rissman, and James, they were all influential in the early development of Nintendo or some other aspect of early video games. The singers of the DK song are as significant as any other flash-in-the-pan pop group with an article on Wikipedia. -- BrianSmithson 18:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I was not aware of this particular rule. I'll make sure that I won't do that again. Thanks for informing me in a polite mannor.70.48.174.30 20:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jumpman name

"a carpenter named Jumpman (an amalgamation of Walkman and Pac-Man, later renamed Mario)" This was pulled from the general description of the game. I don't have a problem with the name Jumpman, I know that was his name, it's the 'amalgamation of Walkman and Pac-Man' that I have a problem with. How the heck to you get 'Jumpman' from amamlgamating 'Pac-man'a nd 'Walkman'? --Thaddius 21:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

That's from Kohler. Perhaps "amalgamation" is the wrong word, though. Jumpman is supposed to suggest Pac-Man and Walkman. — BrianSmithson 22:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe, 'along the same lines as Pac-man and Walkman'? --Thaddius 14:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
That sounds good. A note though: He wasn't renamed Mario in later games; according to Kohler (if I remember correctly; the book's boxed up), the American cabinet art gave his name as Mario. — BrianSmithson 15:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] default article

Why is this not the default article for "Donkey Kong"? I know younger gamers may find this less relevant, but this game was a cultural phenominon. I would think given the number of non-gamers aware of the Donkey Kong arcade game, the term "Donkey Kong" would be more commonly used to refer to this game than the character. Is the article about the character really more notable? -- Lee Bailey(talk) 06:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screen sequence

I'm moving the screens into the sequence that I remember them. The screen labeled #4 (the blue one, with the filename ending in 4) was the second, while screen #2 (the orange one, with the filename ending in 2) was the fourth. At least, that's the American sequence -- I rarely got to #4, so I'm quite sure this is correct. if the sequence varied in other countries, this should be noted in the article. HalJor 04:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Following up (since someone just reverted the screens), some online reviews of the Atari 7800 version of Donkey Kong confirm the converyer belt was #4: "Another unpleasant surprise is the fact the final Donkey Kong screen – the conveyor belt level – is completely missing" [1] and "Also, there is no fourth screen of the cement/conveyer belt, or "pie factory", as a lot of people called it..." [2] HalJor 04:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
This screen sequence is also supported by the sources I used to write the article. Unfortunately, they're boxed up. But we aren't making this up. :) -- BrianSmithson 15:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The easiest way to determine the correct order would be to play the actual arcade game, either via MAME or by finding an arcade cabinet. Kouban 17:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

In the Donkey Kong 64 version of the game, Screen 2 and Screen 4 were swapped around, making the conveyer belt level number 2. This could be the reason for the confusion. I think that the article should mention that somewhere. -SaturnYoshi 07:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I took a stab at revising for clarity, though I didn't specify changes for each port. I imagine this list might be fairly extensive (the game was ported to many different platforms) -- I just don't have enough details to really get the list started. HalJor 00:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm extremely skeptical about this claim, both the inclusion of the arcade machine in Donkey Kong 64 & the first four levels of the Game Boy version of Donkey Kong (which are the levels from the arcade game) were for nostalgic purposes. It would defeat the point (& be completely random) to change the order of the levels. Besides, why is this the first time I have ever heard of this? I mean you would think such a change would be talked about by the Mario fandom on many sites... Either way though, that part about Donkey Kong 64 introducing that order of levels needs to be changed since the Game Boy version was released five years before that & it had that order. SNS 00:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's a page that might explain it (see the Updates section): [3] It states that the Japanese and US versions had different sequences. I'm thoroughly confused now -- I barely remember the pie factory in the arcade at all, but I'd gotten to the elevator screen many times. HalJor 00:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
In light of the evidence, I've reverted my re-ordering. I'm still confused, and not certain enough to be insistent. HalJor 02:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Following Kouban's suggestion of 29 Jul 06 above, I downloaded MAME and the Donkey Kong ROMs from this site. In both of the "US Set" ROMs, the sequence is: beams-rivets//beams-elevator-rivets//beams-pies-elevator-rivets. This is the sequence I remembered. Why the difference from the main article, when MAME/ROMs are supposed to emulate the original software? HalJor 06:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game & Watch image

Donkey Kong Game & Watch.
Donkey Kong Game & Watch.

This image might still be relevant to this article, so I'm putting it in the talk page. BrianSmithson objects to it on the grounds of it being a fair-use image in an already fair-use-heavy article, but I thought fair use only applied to copyrighted images - is that not so? Does a company's product being featured give the company copyright control over the image itself? --Maebmij 04:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry -- I thought that was a Nintendo press image or something. I should have clicked through to the description page to see that it is actually GFDL. Yeah, by all means, put it back in the article! -- BrianSmithson 14:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veritas Cluster Server / VCS ... really?

The article lists ports by Coleco to Atari 2600, Intellivision, and VCS, which is specifically linked to the Veritas Cluster Server article. This must be a mistake. This sounds like confusion over the fact that the Atari 2600 was at that time referred to as the Atari VCS ("video computer system"). Noidner 00:02, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article title: change from "arcade game" to "video game"

This article doesn't just cover Donkey Kong, the arcade game. It also covers the various console ports of that arcade game. There isn't (and shouldnt be) a separate article on the NES version, or the ColecoVision version, etc., because all that information is here. Therefore, the article title is inaccurate. Let's move the article to Donkey Kong (video game). There's nothing currently there, so the move will be a very simple matter. Please give your thoughts. If there are no dissenting replies within a few weeks, I'll move the article. --Ecksemmess 22:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for the change. --SaturnYoshi 22:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
That wouldn't be a bad idea. Be sure to change all the articles that link to this one, though. — BrianSmithson 22:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Kirby and Kirby

I removed a bit that claimed that the Nintendo character Kirby was named for Nintendo lawyer John Kirby. I don't think it's relevant to Donkey Kong, though it is relevant to Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Nintendo Co., Ltd., a daughter article of sorts. However, it still needs a source there. Can anyone provide one? — BrianSmithson 04:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The source is the book Game Over by David Sheff. This was stated on Kirby (Nintendo)'s talk page in the section about his name. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 06:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I own the book, but it's in America at the moment. Do you have a page number reference? — BrianSmithson 08:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Unfourtunately, I do not own the book myself. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wii Virtual Console

Can we find a better source than a Youtube video that Donkey Kong will be a launch title for the Wii Virtual Console? This is a featured article; the sources need to be high-quality. — BrianSmithson 01:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Should Virtual Console games even have "Wii" in the Platform section? Xbox Live Arcade games don't have "Xbox 360" in the platform section afterall. SNS 02:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Video Games Guide

What page does Donkey Kong appear on in this book? The Glory Boy added some information about Donkey Kong being in the book, but he didn't give a page number to complete the reference. Anyone got the book? — BrianSmithson 09:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Universal Studios lawsuit?

Is that bit in the beginning about Universal suing Nintendo because of a name similarity true? It sounds interesting, but I fail to see any cited sources. Can someone help me out on that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.196.112.182 (talk • contribs).

It's customary not to explicitly cite information in the lead that's simply smmarized from elsewhere in the article. Donkey Kong (video game)#Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Nintendo Co., Ltd. is the relevant section with full citations. — TKD::Talk 02:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Account of game development to digest into article

Some of this is reflected in the text, but I thought it would be helpful to dump it here for further digestion. This is copied from a federal court decision in the Universal trademark lawsuit, and as such the text copied below is in the public domain. As the judge's account was directly based on Nintendo's submissions, it should be rather accurate.

Nintendo's development of Donkey Kong began in March 1981. In the design [*918] stages, the original game concept involved a port scene, and featured the Popeye cartoon characters -- Popeye, Bluto and Popeye's girlfriend, Olive Oyl. Because it was determined that it was not technically possible to present the Popeye characters on the video screen, the characters Popeye and Bluto were replaced with "Mario the Carpenter" and a comical gorilla, and the port scene was changed to an unfinished building.
The name "Donkey Kong" was selected for the game through an informal process. The word "kong" was adopted because it was believed to be readily understandable as denoting a gorilla; the word "donkey" was derived by consulting a Japanese/English dictionary which gave the word "donkey" as a translation for a Japanese word meaning stupid or "goofy." Shigeru Miyomoto, the Nintendo employee who designed Donkey Kong, testified by deposition [**15] that he had seen King Kong movies, and that he referred to the Donkey Kong gorilla as "King Kong" while designing the game.
The object of the Donkey Kong game is for the player to maneuver Mario the Carpenter up an unfinished girdered structure to rescue a girl from the gorilla at the top. To reach the top, Mario must run up ramps, climb ladders, jump on moving construction elevators and ride conveyor belts while avoiding obstacles such as cement tubs, fox-fires, barrels, and beams rolled down the structure by Donkey Kong. Mario wins such prizes as telephones, umbrellas, lunch pails and birthday cakes on his way. At the top of the unfinished structure, Donkey Kong struts back and forth and jumps up and down.
In July 1981, the Donkey Kong game was introduced into the United States market. The game was a major commercial success. Nintendo has received over $180 million from the sale in the United States and Canada of approximately 60,000 Donkey Kong video arcade games. Nintendo has licensed its trademark in the Donkey Kong name and characters to over 50 licensees for use in connection with a large variety of products and has received over $8.5 million in royalties for such licenses. [**16] Major licensees include Atari, Inc. ("Atari"), Coleco Industries, Inc. ("Coleco"), Ruby-Spears Enterprises, Inc. ("Ruby-Spears") and Ralston Purina Company. Nintendo has also developed and now markets video arcade games called "Donkey Kong Junior" and "Mario Brothers," based on the characters made popular in the original Donkey Kong game. In addition, Nintendo has developed and now markets handheld video games called "Donkey Kong," "Donkey Kong II", "Donkey Kong Junior" and "Mario Brothers." Nintendo also manufactures and sells tabletop video games named "Mario's Cement Factory" and "Donkey Kong Junior."

Universal City Studios, Inc. v. Nintendo Co., 578 F. Supp. 911, 917-918 (S.D.N.Y. 1983).

Postdlf 17:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

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