Talk:Don Black (nationalist)

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Contents 1 The link to the fake Martin Luther King page is an abuse of the Wikipedia's influence 2 Page title 3 from VfD 4 Is he a member of the Council of Conservative Citizens? 5 Reagan and Don Black 6 Picture 7 "Right Wing Conservative?" 8 Terrorism 9 Invasion of Dominica 10 Stephen D. Black or Stephen M. Black? 11 Don Black

[edit] The link to the fake Martin Luther King page is an abuse of the Wikipedia's influence

Yesterday I removed the link to Don Black's disinformative Martin Luther King page. I see no relevance to the article - the only point of the link seems to be to contribute to that page's Google ranking. Currently, the fake Martin Luther King page is the number one hit on Google if you search for "Martin Luther King", which is deeply disturbing as the page purports to be "true" information and looks like a genuine informative site but is entirely defamatory and presents a white supremacist rewriting of the life of the civil rights leader. The thirty or forty top ranking links to the site are from Stormfront, from libraries and educators using the site as an example of disinformation and why it's important to evaluate websites critically - and from the Wikipedia. JeffLB put the link to the fake Martin Luther King site back in the article - why? Is there ANY other reason than to drive up the pagerank of the site? Lijil 10:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Lijil: I'm not going to insert the link again but my thinking was that the site gives a good indication of where he is at. JLB JeffLB 12:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The site (which is factual; sorry to disappoint you and your delusions that King was the paragon of morality) is there because it was created by Don Black. It's just as legitimate as Stormfront being mentioned.

--Ryodox 18:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Since the website gives us incite on just how hard Don Black sucks, we should probably keep it up, if only so the godamn hammerheads will shut the fuck up.

[refactored] 69.250.130.215

[edit] Page title

For quite a long time this article was simply "Don Black". Then an editor who apparently knows another Don Black became offended over the shared name and moved it to "Don Black, White Nationalist", then used "Don Black" for the other fellow, who doesn't seem notable. "Don Black, White Nationalist" doesn't conform to our naming standards, so I moved it "Don Black (nationalist)" and made "Don Black" into a disambiguation page. Next, the other editor moved "Don Black (nationalist)" to "Don Black (racist)". It is important for our page titles to be as NPOV as possible. I see no reason for this last page name change and am going to request that it be moved back to "Don Black (nationalist)", unless someone esle can suggest a better, NPOV title. -Willmcw 18:57, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

I suggest Don black (white supremacist). TheCoffee 06:35, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I don't see why he can't be called what he clearly is. "Nationalist" has far more neautral implications, and to call him what he calls himself, when what he says is hardly "NPOV", is hardly the right way to go about it, unless it's a very accurate term like "white supremacist". elvenscout742 22:23, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Based on extensive discussions on the VfD, Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Don Black, my view is that it should go to Don Black (activist). That follows the example of Bill White (activist), a person in a similar line of work. Cheers, -Willmcw 01:18, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

the guy is a white supremacist, is he not? I think even he'd agree to that, if not "white separatist" ore "white nationalist" "nationalist" alone does not convey what he is most known for. If he wasn't a racist, no one would ever have heard of him. His extremism is what makes him known and noteworthy... if it wasn't for that he'd just be another guy with a blog and board. I say "(white supremacist)"

I don't think Don Black, and those of his political ilk are "Nationalists", no matter what they call it. His website advocates ethnic separatism of an internationalist tone. Its infact somewhat anti-nationalist in tone. It certainly is not "patriotic". I'd vote Don black(white supremacist). Duckmonster 07:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Nationalism is not necessary patriotic, in internationalist empires it's in fact often anti-state and separatist. See for example nationalism in USSR. As for "internationalism" it's also selective view. Pure internationalism applies to everybody. Don Black's "internationalism" applies to people of European heritage only, at best. And it's not a new idea. Wasn't such thing an official American nationalism prior to Civil Rights reforms? As for the name, I suggest functionalist version - "Don Black (Stormfront admin)". --Poison sf 16:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

This matter was settled long ago, after more debate than is shown here. Unless the current title is unacceptable we should retain it. Black has done nmore than serve as an admin, and will probably do other things as well. "Clarifiers" should be as neutral and short as possible. -Will Beback 23:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] from VfD

On 17 June 2005, a spin-off from this article was nominated for deletion. The page move history and title of this article were discussed. A recommendation to merge this article into either the Stormfront article or the Operation Red Dog article was also discussed. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Don Black for a record of the discussion. Further discussions about whether to merge or move this article (and if so, where) should be conducted on this Talk page.

[edit] Is he a member of the Council of Conservative Citizens?

Is he a member of the Council of Conservative Citizens?

Or does he just attend meetings?

[edit] Reagan and Don Black

In 1980 Ronold Reagan made a speach in Philidelphia Mississippi declareing the utost importance of states rights. Andrew Young pointed out the insensitivity of Reagan's making such a speach at the sight of the most infamous tripple murder the Klan ever commited.

Soon afterwards Klan Wizard Wilkinson endorced Reagan saying "The Republican platform reads as if a Klanmen had written it."

Wilkinson especialy like Reagan's lukewarn stance on afermitive action.

Reagan regected this endorsement. Weeks after it had been made.

"The Fiery Cross" page 387

That same year on september 1st Reagan claimed Jimmy Carter chose to open his campain in Tuscumbia Alabama because it "gave birth and is the parent body of the Klu Klux Klan" a lie that Reagan never gave a sincer apology for but used it when confronted with facts to further slander Jimmy Carter.

Soon after Regans lie Wilkinson went one step further and he argued The fact the Klan had been injected into the campain proved "the ideals of the Klan" had risen to high levels. "It's risen to such a high level that the GOP platform parallels our views almost one-hundred percent across the board"

"The Fiery Cross" page 388

In 1985 when Reagan was denied millitary support for the contras in Nicuraga Klansmen rallied to his side. Don Black announced that he had created a 120 man Klan Unit called "The Nathanian Beford Forrest Brigade" with the intention of aiding the contras. Black said the brigade would engage in psychological warfare in Nicuraga to foster anti-government seniment and would provde "a civi action unit to promote a stable economy" The Klan felt that they were acting with Regan's blessing because he had said in October that "traditional" for American volunteers to take such actions in other countries.

"The Fiery Cross" page 398

[edit] Picture

I was wondering, doesn't anyone think that this article should have a picture for Don Black by now? --Gramaic | Talk 00:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Right Wing Conservative?"

Isn't this redundant and sneaky anti-conservative POV? Maybe we could say "extreme right wing" or something. Djbell 16:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terrorism

Added the terrorism sidebar. The attempted attack on Dominica is an important part of right wing terrorism history, and perhaps the section on Operation Red Dog needs to be expanded. Duckmonster 13:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Someone, who based on other edits appears to be somewhat of a sympathiser, has removed the reference to terrorism. The charge is not a contraversial one in this case. Don Black, engaged in a conspiracy to use violence against a people , illegitimately, for political gain, with members of the Ku Klux Klan. By almost any definition this is terrorism. I will not revert until this is discussed, but calling it merely 'armed' is just using weasle words. Should the article on Usama Bin Laden be stipped of the term "terrorism" on the same grounds? I don't think so. Frankly Don's site Stormfront is one of the biggest enablers of terrorist activity in the world. Even if he didn't participate in the Dominica conspiracy, it would be hard to argue his current activities do not constitute at least aiding and abbetting neo-nazi terrorism. Duckmonster 07:53, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

The terrorism sidebar has no place on the article page. Don Black is soft spoken in his public speaches and interviews and does not advocate violence. Stormfront, is a discussion board for White nationalism that does not allow the advocacy of violence or illegal activites. That sidebar is a clear projection of a POV. I am not a member of Stormfront and am not eligible because they consider me not White. That doesn't bother me -- I believe Chinese, African, Japanese or people of other races have a right to such a board and that people of the White race also have that right. I do believe that sidebar does not reflect a neutral standing and would like to remove it. I am a regular reader of Stormfront and follow the public activities of Don Black. There is nothing he does now that I know about that remotely would justify the terror sidebar. --JeffLB 04:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Some people reform, and when that happens it's a great thing. But it does not negate their past. If you read this article you'll see that Black previously engaged in activities which may qualify as domestic and international terrorism.

• In 1985, Black announced that he had created the "Nathanial Bedford Forrest Brigade" under KKK auspices to aid the Contras in Nicaragua. He said the 120-man unit would engage in psychological warfare to foster anti-government sentiment and would provide "a civil action unit to promote a stable economy".

Irregular warfare against a government and civilians is terrorism. -Will Beback 05:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not a fan of Don Black - I don't like him or agree with his political perspective at all. In all humility, however, to consider this a reason for the terrorism sidebar is a stretch. --JeffLB 13:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Even if he might be called a "terrorist" due to his earlier activities, the template was an unnecessary addition. I've removed it. -Will Beback 10:17, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Invasion of Dominica

If this is true, then ROTFLMAO... what a hilariously disgraceful real troll :D Dave 23:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stephen D. Black or Stephen M. Black?

Court records indicate that his real name is Stephen D. Black. Why does this say Stephen Myron Black? Stick to the Facts 07:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

What court papers are you looking at? -Will Beback · † · 08:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The court's ruling in the appeal of his sentence indicates his name is Stephen D. Black. UNITED STATES of America v. Stephen D. BLACK and Joe D. Hawkins The case cite is 685 F2d 132 and you can see a PDF of the opinion here: http://www.mootsf.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5914.

Unless there is some reasoned objection I will indicate in the article that court records indicate his name is Stephen D. Black. Stick to the Facts 16:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any sources for "Myron", so I'd say go ahead. -Will Beback · † · 22:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Don Black

What a last name to have, from a white nationalist, ha!Phu2734 04:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)