Talk:Dominance hierarchy

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It is not clear how much of dominance hierarchy in humans is due to the intrinsic biology of our brains, derived from evolution, and how much is due to cultural factors.

I would argue that the similarity of dominance behavior between advanced primates and humans is strong evidence of a biological source for that type of behavior.Ace Diamond 20:58, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Certainly is a good indication. But we should be aware of the phenomenon of convergence in evolution, whereas two apparently similar traits in function, such as wings in bats and wings in birds are very different in terms of evolution and structure. Renato Sabbatini

Well, OK, but I think your argument assumes that nature is working harder than she has to. Do you think that behavioral evolution would stop with hairy primates and then restart with a different impetus in his naked brethern?Ace Diamond 22:31, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Of course I agree, Ace, I side with you in this subject. But we must always be skeptic and cautious when comparing, in biology, particularly in human sociobiology, which is so influenced by culture. There have been social organizations where dominance hierarchy was thoroughçy neutralized bu culture. --R.Sabbatini 14:29, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I think that it might be posible to be too cautious about some things but at the same time I may be putting too fine a point on this. So we can agree to agree. Ace Diamond 02:18, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Dominance hierarchies may have a biological origin, but they may be self-organizing. This is difficult to explain but if you think about a system in which assymetries among individuals competing for a resource lead to clear cut winner and loosser, then a dominance hierarchy will seem to have formed, wether the individuals involved in the group realized this or not. Indeed, the existence of real dominance hierarchies and how we measure the statistical significance of such hierarchies is still a controversial subject. --Reefpicker 18:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, the need to maintain social position and social knowledge may be an impetus for the evolution of larger brains in humans.

I am not sure where the author takes this from but a large brain in humans is more directly associated with 1) language/speech 2) Tool Usage. It is our ability to understand and produce a complex language that probably cause our big evolutionary leap. Maintanace of social dominance had little to do with this.--Reefpicker 15:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Really, do you believe that language/speech is unrelated to social positioning and knowledge?Ace Diamond 03:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Social "positioning" is NOT related to language and speech. It is related to reproductive success and access to resources. It is a property of the physiological assymetries that exists in a population. (i.e no assymetry, no hierarchy). You can argue that the need to maintain a "social position" was an "impetus" or motivating factor driving evolution of larger brains, but our brains have evolved not to provide knowledge of our dominance status, but to provide the ability to manipulate objects, create tools, and transmit this knowledge vertically in time (culture). Thus, the evolutionary force that propelled the selection of bigger brains was probably the ability of the early hominid to use tools for hunting and to communicate this knowledge to their offsprings... --Reefpicker 21:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)