Talk:Doctor Weil (Mega Man Zero)

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Contents 1 Dr. Weil's Personality 2 Is Dr. Weil Dr. Wily? 3 Model V Section 4 Rockman ZX section 5 Changed Rockman ZX to Megaman ZX

[edit] Dr. Weil's Personality

I'm sorry, but the old version of Dr. Weil's personality is wrong and has numerous spelling errors. If anything, you've reverted it back to an unprofessional look. I mean, let's look at it sentence by sentence.

Memories of Dr. Wily and Isoc are brought up in this character.

To the average person who doesn't know much about the Megaman series, this sentence means nothing. The article's target audience is for those that know little to nothing about Megaman, thus it should assume no knowledge of Dr. Wily and Isoc.

For one, he is obsessed with Zero, his performance, his specs, and overall him as a whole.

This sentence is incorrect. Dr. Weil isn't obsessed about Zero. He's more obsessed with revenge against those that wronged him, as evidenced in Megaman Zero 4 and near the end of Megaman Zero 3. The majority of his words to Zero are him boasting about how he's human, how humanity are pigs and how he will bend all Reploids to his will.

So what if he cackles about how far Zero can get in "that body"? He's just taunting Zero.

Weil exhibits many of the same traits as Wily: insanity, no remorse, and an unending desire to see his plots through to their eventual conclusion.

Comparing him to another character is of no use to someone who knows little about the Megaman franchises, which is the article's target audience. That is why I stripped this sentence out and replaced it with one that still states he's insane.

Weil's explosion from Neo Arcadia has also driven him insane with rage and revenge.

Excuse me, but explosion? Expulsion, right? And yes, that is his major character trait. However, you only gave it a passing mention.

He hates the inhabitants of Neo Arcadia and for thier actions agaist him, as well as an overbearing greed for his increse in power.

Thier should be spelt their. The letter n is missing from against and there's an a missing from increase.

In contrast, there are no spelling mistakes in the version I created. My version talks about his boasts to Zero of his own humanity and how he's superior to Zero because of it, which yours lacked. It talks about how Weil regards Reploids as tools, which yours did not contain. It even contains a quote from the Japanese version of the game that explains his underlying motive for all he has done for the past two games.

Admittedly, perhaps the phrase "an eye-for-an-eye mentality" could be written better, but the version I wrote is accurate, better spelled and focuses less on a few rare and random taunts.

Wolf ODonnell 20:15, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is Dr. Weil Dr. Wily?

But in MMZ3, wasn't it said that Dr. Weil created Omega? Forgive me if this is contorted logic, but Omega was actually Original Zero, which seems to suggest to me that Dr. Weil built Zero's original body, and Dr. Wily was Zero's creator, making Dr. Weil Dr. Wily.

What other genius mad scientist but Wily would label his robots "Numbers"? --216.127.26.115 21:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Light did it. In fact, his numbering predates Wily's. TPIRFanSteve 00:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think Weil and Wily are the same person. Infact, I find it extremely impossible. For 1, Wily most likely doesn't even exist in a physical form anymore, if he's not just a recording like Dr.Light is in the X series. In the opening of MMX4, he appears to Zero in a dream, telling him to kill X. This could suggest that he's a recording in Zero's head, and was removed from him along with the Maverick/Zero Virus when he was transferred to a new body. Heck, if Omega had won the battle against Zero in MMZ3, he might of gotten the maverick virus and would've tried to destroy everything. Also, Wily and Weil's personallitys are different, although I cannot thouroghly explain how. Also, don't you think that if they were the same person, at the end of MMZ4 he would of boasted about how he actually created Zero, and would've revealed that he was actually Dr.Wily? Plus, Wily couldn't have lived that long, I mean it's how many years in the future? One last thing, Weil never "numbered" his robots, they were simply called Weil's Numbers, Wily gave his Robots serial numbers, he didn't number them either.

~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 02:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC) ~

People and Reploids both have incredibly long lifespans in the Megaman-Zero games. Prairie is widely believed to be Alouette (heck, they even have the same voice actor), and that takes place hundreds of years after Megaman Zero 4. Weil's original body is long gone; who's to say that he's NOT Wily? And what he says at the end of MMZ3 is that he created Reploids...since Wily created Zero, the first real Reploid, it's entirely possible. The fact of the matter is that we don't know for sure who Weil is either way with the information we have now, but we can't simply write off a theory as invalid this early either.

Furthermore, Weil's Numbers aren't actually his robots. He didn't build them. They were living in Neo Arcadia long before he returned in Megaman Zero 3. Wolf ODonnell 10:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Model V Section

The Model V Section I wrote is all based on info straight out of the game, thus I fail to see how I could reference a link on the Internet...

Well, you have to reference it. The game hasn't been released in the US and definitely not in Europe, and some of us can't import. How can we tell you're not lying out of your arse? Here, I'll put the reference in it for you. Wolf ODonnell 12:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Quite frankly, considering the quality of some official translations, an English language release might only confuse the matter by mistranslating the information... hell, this very article's title is already a mistranslation >.> Thank you for putting in the reference tag though ^^ ~ライケン P.S. - if you check my original version, I put in spoiler tags - Randall, however, does not approve of them (and quite frankly, I understand why), and has a habit of removing them, so you should talk to him about not removing them if you really feel they're needed.

[edit] Rockman ZX section

I'm getting tired of this - just because you can't read the game doesn't mean it's "not released yet". New information has been released regarding the character, and I am attempting to update the now outdated article, as it is about Dr. Vile, not just his role in the Rockman Zero series. This is the last time I'm going to bother with this issue, and if you still feel the need to remove relevant information, go right ahead. ~ライケン

It is a clearly a spoiler! The least you can do is put spoiler tags around it. It hasn't been released out here yet, so as far as I'm concerned, the information is a spoiler. I can't play the game, I can't read the game and the majority of Megaman fans will not be able to either.

Therefore, the majority of Megaman fans will not know the details of Weil's supposed role in Rockman ZX. And a majority will not want to know until they play the game. If they cannot play the game to find out this info and if the info is released before they play the game, it is a spoiler and should be marked as such, even if you insist it must be there.

At the moment, I have reverted the page back to my changes, which will inevitably mean the destruction of your Rockman ZX section. However, when I get to it, I may put the article back but with spoiler tags.

Wolf ODonnell 11:13, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

You'd be surpirsed. The lads down at the MMN forums probably have been sitting on this information for weeks on end. Until Wolf ODonnell can explain how the section header Mega Man ZX is less sufficient for organizing the data, I push for the spoiler tags to remain out. -Randall Brackett 13:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll take this one point by point:

"The least you can do is put spoiler tags around it."

And if you paid ANY attention, everytime I posted this section after the first time it was deleted for lack of tags by someone (I think it might've been you, Wolf), I have always posted it with tags. I agree with Randall that they shouldn't be needed, as I find it pretty self explanatory, but I am willing to concede the point.

"I can't play the game, I can't read the game and the majority of Megaman fans will not be able to either. Therefore, the majority of Megaman fans will not know the details of Weil's supposed role in Rockman ZX."

Um, you're assuming the majority of Rockman fans live in the US or speak/read English and not Japanese. Bit overly assuming aren't you? Not only do the large number of fans who live in Japan speak/read Japanese and buy the games, a quite sizable number of stateside fans can do so and imported the game, so your "majority" claim is obviously just pulled out of your ass. Arrogance = fail.

At any rate, it's become rather obvious that Wikipedia editors are a bit too obsessed with whether or not a non-translated version of their material is released and letting it take predecence over the actual freaking originals, so I'll stop wasting my time here and contribute to TUS' encyclopedia on Rockman. Stay healthy kids, and Randall, keep petitioning to remove the spoiler tags permanently ;p ~ライケン

"Um, you're assuming the majority of Rockman fans live in the US or speak/read English and not Japanese."

I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption here on the English-language Wikipedia. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

As for the Megaman ZX/Rockman ZX header, it isn't enough. There are varying degrees of information. There's stuff people already know about the game that doesn't spoil anything for them and information from the game that spoils a lot of plot. How am I supposed to know which the information you put up is? You tell me that.

So I avoid the section completely? What if no one else sees a possible factual error in what you've put down? I can't stand by and let that happen, to let this article contain any posible errors, because most of the time no one picks it up. You just ask AMIB about that. For a long time no one, including me, picked up on the fact that the article violated WP, until he came along.

How long did it take for him to come along and for me to start fix it? You tell me that.

Wikipedia is not your average encyclopaedia. Only your average encyclopadia doesn't have spoiler tags, because, let's face it, they don't cover recent videogames. They have no need for spoiler tags, because most of the stuff they cover is so old everyone knows the plot more or less.

You may think it looks horrible and in a way, so do I. But it's absolutely necessary for such a different encyclopaedia such as this.

P.S. My assumption that the majority of Megaman fans cannot read Japanese is a very safe one, considering the fact that a large number of them live in the US and Europe and Australia and these alone will dwarf the Japanese fans in numbers. It is also based on observations from the number of Megaman fansites and forums I go to. I can safely state that it is a very safe assumption.

Wolf ODonnell 11:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The template was placed directly below the header. It was redundant. As for the "normal encyclopedia" and clean-up tags argument, that non-sequir has no relevance to this dispute. -Randall Brackett 11:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

But it was placed immediatley before the actual spoiler info itself, as what usually occurs. It preceded the actual spoiler info itself and therefore was not redundant, although if you wish for me to put it above the header that is fine with me. Wolf ODonnell 12:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't wish for it to go anywhere. No offense, but we need to keep the pages clear for Wikipedia organization and formatting. If there is an spoiler warning directly below a header that states a subject of prose ,it is indeed redundant. You've still yet to explain to me how it isn't. -Randall Brackett 16:11, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

"My assumption that the majority of Megaman fans cannot read Japanese is a very safe one, considering the fact that a large number of them live in the US and Europe and Australia and these alone will dwarf the Japanese fans in numbers. It is also based on observations from the number of Megaman fansites and forums I go to. I can safely state that it is a very safe assumption."

Except you're forgetting that a sizable number of fans in all those countries either know Japanese or are learning it and importing the game - if you could say that in those countries not one person knew Japanese, your assumption would work, but this is clearly not the case. Furthermore, I'm relatively confident that the fansites and forums you visit are all English since it seems that you cannot read Japanese, and thus to base the quantity of non-Japanese speaking vs. Japanese speaking fans off your own experiences and habits is inherently flawed. Hell, the very fact that you still call him "Megaman" means you probably input that term when searching for information on him, which means that there is very little chance of finding any of the Japanese fansites (which would probably use ロックマン anyway).

But in the end, it doesn't matter anyway - whether or not you can speak Japanese does not change the validity of the information. If anything, it potentially compromises the quality of the article, since it means you would go by the US version over the original, even if there are differences or mistranslations - granted, this probably isn't as big an issue for the Rockman series as it is for, say, Yuugiou GX, whose US version has nothing to do with the original, but it still leads to issues like this very article's title of "Weil" rather than "Vile". ~ライケン

Your assumptions are irrelevant. If I want to find something about him I type Megaman first and if I come up with nothing I want, then I type in Rockman. Regardless, the issue is irrelevant. It still doesn't change the fact that it is a major plot spoiler that needs to be clearly marked a such, which is different from information from Rockman ZX that is generally known. Wolf ODonnell 15:44, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

"Your assumptions are irrelevant."

And yours aren't? >.>

"It still doesn't change the fact that it is a major plot spoiler that needs to be clearly marked a such,"

Granted - and like I said before, ever since my first addition of the paragraph, I have always included spoiler tags. Regardless of whether YOU can read the game's text, it IS released and there IS new information on this character. I have merely attempted to contribute this information. That is all. ~ライケン

So why tell me off, hm? What is the purpose of ranting at me? Well? Wolf ODonnell 22:56, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

You know what? Never mind. I've readded the Rockman ZX section, because from what spoilers I accidentally came across thanks to careless jerks (not you), the general jist of your paragraph does seem correct. However, I am unsure of whether you have read too much in between the lines and there is no referencing, so I've put one dispute tag on and one call for an expert tag on. Feel free to remove these tags when you are done fixing the problem. Wolf ODonnell 13:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changed Rockman ZX to Megaman ZX

I cganged Rockman ZX to Megamna ZX because it is the offical English name. [1] This follows naming conventions and is in no way speculation becuase Capcom itself confirms the title. Finally, there is no rule against using English titles before the release of a game or a rule that states that they should not be used due to the fact that they may change. If that happened a new title can be added easily. --My old username 21:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I was talking in the context of plot and names ingame. Technically it's speculation, no matter how obvious it is. - Zero1328 _Talk? 00:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Look. Use Rockman ZX, because the info within the article refers to the Japanese version, which is called Rockman ZX. Model V is the Japanese name. Megaman ZX has not been released yet, so we do not know whether they will change Model V to Model W or, because Model V is made from bits of Ragnarok as well, whether it will be called Model R. We do, however, know that in the Japanese version, it is called Model V, so we use Rockman ZX because we are using info that comes from the Japanese version. I'm thinking of removing the Rockman/Megaman ZX info altogether, because there's nothing really saying that this Model V is actually Weil himself, is there? Wolf ODonnell 12:01, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

There is a big difference between assuming what the name of an item is and usuing an officialluy announced titie. Unless you want to claim that Capcom is specuulating about the name that argument is invaild. --My old username 16:50, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Apparently Megaman ZX has been released in the US. Can we start changing info to the US version now or hasn't anybody got to the part where Model V is introduced yet? Wolf ODonnell 09:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)