Talk:Disney Sing Along Songs

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[edit] Time for Cleanup

First of all, whoever is deleting songs, please stop. Over the four different series, there have been songs moved or deleted from the various volumes, or in the case of DVD reissues, some songs have been added. These are all clearly marked and noted. If your copy is missing a song, the page will explain why -- don't delete the song from the page!! Second, it does not make sense to include all of the Spanish versions when there is an entire Wikipedia devoted to the Spanish language. These will be moved immediately. Third, it is overkill to include voice credits on every song when the song credits are clearly linked to the original movie from whence it came. If "singer" credits must be included, add them to the original movie page, not to this page, please. Finally, if we must add references and sources, we should discuss what is appropriate and add them right away. Any comments? Azasakayi 16:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volume Number Debate

Tell me, why would Volume 2 come out before Volume 1. Volume 1 always come out first, you know. Can't you see that 'Heigh-Ho' comes out in 1986, not 1987? -- Guest Editor

I've seen the end credits, and the copyright date is MCMLXXXVII, not MCMLXXXVI. --Ryanasaurus0077 14:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I think yours is a later version? Could be a typo. Imax80 17:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Either it IS a typo or it really DID come out in 1987. Does your print say 1987? --Ryanasaurus0077 18:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
      • I wish I had it. I highly doubt that Volume 2 was first, why would Disney (an extremely intellegent animation powerhouse in my opinion) put out a Volume 2 before a Volume 1? I have the 1991 reprinting of Volume 2. Imaxination 80
        • If you're reading this, Ryanasaurus0077, Volume 1 of Disney Sing Along Songs was released in December of 1986 and would originally have the copyright date "MCMLXXXVI" (your version must be a later printing). End of story. Gabrielkat 02:22, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
          • The earliest printing I know of had no FBI warnings at all! --Ryanasaurus0077 17:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
            • Then how does the video begin? First it's all black, then the WDHV logo starts out of nowhere? Imax80 15:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

- Creepy. That probably jumped out at people who were expecting FBI warnings. Imax80 00:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I thought that was a re-print in 1989. My cousin had a version of Heigh-Ho that had the same tape label, the 1st printing of Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah had. So, I think just like Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, Heigh-Ho had the red FBI warnings/videodealership announcement/1986 home video logo with "presents" at the bottom. Skymac207 23:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


If Volume 3's stock number was #662 and released in 1987, then why does Vol. 4 have #581 when released in 1988? It's like the 1988 Cinderella print having a #410 on it. Imax80 15:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Where can I find the 1986 version of Volume 1? Imax80 23:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

First of all, there have been ongoing chats of Volume 2 coming first and not Volume 1. Also, why are the release dates on Vol. 3 and Vol. 4 the other way around, along with Vol. 8, which should be 1992.

Disney would not release a one volume before the other, they went in order, the copyright dates on the cassettes are possibly typos.

I think everything should be put in order. Imax80 23:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about 3 and 4, but in the case of 11 and 12, I find it very natural to think that the reason relates to the Twelve days of Christmas that they want to give a volume number easy to remember. Georgia guy 00:33, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Look, my theory is this. In 1986, Disney was mastering Vol. 1 to tape, and assumed they would hit in spring 1987 and put the 1987 copyright date on all prints, but when Vol. 2 was being mastered to tape, they then said it would be a Christmas 1986 hit, so 1986 was put on all prints, and they were released in December '86 that way.

About Volumes 3 and 4, possibly the same issue I stated above, unexpected release dates leading to typos. Imax80 01:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see why Zip A Dee Doo Dah is first, it's because probably Heigh Ho has more texured bouncing ball than in Zip A Dee Doo Dah (which had white bouncing ball) -- Blocked User

Does the Volume 1 DVD say "1986"? Just wondering? Imax80 01:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why Volume Numbers Are Irrelevant

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah was likely planned as the most urgent release to coincide with the last North-American theatrical release of "Song Of The South", in 1986. The Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah Sing Along Songs was based on the song, Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, which was the most popular song EVER to come out of a Disney movie. This makes it important and primary. It was not labelled "Volume 2", because it just was that it was. Ditto for Heigh-Ho. It was only after they'd made a few volumes that they really started attaching volume numbers. Though after the complaints about the portrayal of African Americans in "Song of the South" rehashed in 1986, it would have been politically correct to label Heigh-Ho as Volume 1, just as "Snow White" predates "Song Of The South", then repair the order from there on. Note also that the DVD releases have no volume numbers.

The live-action SAS were originally released as "Mickey's Fun Songs" then were rolled into the SAS in later re-releases (though produced in the late '80's). They do not have volume numbers but were grouped together promotionally. Flik's Musical Adventure was made coincidental with Disney-Pixar's A Bug's Life, in the style of the old Mickey's Fun Songs. Let's Go To Disneyland Paris was released only in Europe, also done in the same style.

An SAS may only qualify as "Volume No." if they are based on a primary Disney musical release. Notice there is no "Milo's Atlantian SAS", yet "Sing-A-Song With Winnie the Pooh (And Piglet Too)" doesn't rate a volume number at all. What about "Little Patch Of Heaven" and "On My Way", which may actually qualify as Volumes 17 and 18 (if Pooh doesn't get there first). Volumes one through sixteen are "written in stone" and will only be released to DVD with those designations. Let's watch and see where they go. I notice that the "Very Merry Christmas SAS" was re-released to DVD in 2002 with additional content and without a volume number.

Let's try to appreciate the content, and be less concerned with the volume numbers. I like this new look with Volume Trivia and "re-release" dates, and will continue to contribute. Thanks. -- Azasakayi 00:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

  • My new copy of Heigh-Ho is dated MCMLXXXVII (1987) on the box, but the tape is mislabeled MCMLXXXI (1981). The Disney Home Video sticker matches at the corner, so they are an original set. It turns out even Disney can make mistakes. Azasakayi 02:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Friend Like Me - Missing 2nd Edition

Can anyone confirm the existence of a second edition of "Friend Like Me"? I've seen the package on a checklist which was included with my VHS copy of "Flik's Musical Adventure". The first edition is noted as released March 3, 1993, and Amazon lists a second release date of June 24, 1994 (the same date as "Be Our Guest" and "Bare Necessities" 2nd editions). This issue should have the newer package design (as seen on the Spanish edition), but I've been unable to find it in the marketplace (Amazon, ebay, etc.) Does anyone have this newer package, or was it somehow skipped?--Azasakayi 00:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I'm guessing that this was the last volume released in the 2nd series (#11 of 12, with #12 being the earlier released The Twelve Days Of Christmas). Then the new series, beginning with Circle of Life had new packaging, no new volume numbers, new theme orchestration (first appearing on Friend Like Me). Since it was the last of the old, or first of the new, it really belongs to both series, and given the controversy over Robin Williams' contract dispute with Disney, it just never made it out there into the market, though promoted and designed. It will probably hit DVD around the next Aladdin re-release. Azasakayi 02:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] We'll need pictures in this Article

I think we'll need some pictures for the article, can you somebody do that for me?

  • I have a collection of VHS/DVD cover images - can we include them all or just a few as samples? Also, on the question of citing sources/references -- can we use one over-arching reference such as "VHS/DVD credits" for songs and "Amazon.com" for release dates?Azasakayi 17:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Surprising Factor

You're not going to believe this, but I just remembered in September 2004, I saw a copy of Be Our Guest with a vertical white label (a.k.a the old style tape label), like all the 1991 re-prints, being sold with other tapes. That gives me the idea that vol.10 was made back on Nov. 12, 1991 to promote the limited premiere of the new Beauty & the Beast movie, the following day (there's probally a trailer on that copy) & that they were still using the old style tape label 1991. Skymac207 13:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I don't believe you. What is your point here again? It is surely possible that Be Our Guest was released on Nov 12, 1991, but where is your proof? Can we tell by the stock number (1311) what video may have been released just before or just after this one for reference? I'm not sure this example you cite actually exists. You seem willing to cite other "facts" which have no basis in reality, so why should anyone believe you on this one. I have edited many of your statements to at least be grammatically correct, and to reduce the unnecessary verbage, but you insist on reinstating this drivel repeatedly. Statements on Fun With Music and 101 Notes of Fun have been established for some time and do not need additional words or clarification. Stop changing what already works. If you have valid, cited, correct, new information, then add it or bring it here to be considered. You've got a really bad reputation for making bad edits here and elsewhere, so mostly you're going to get overruled. Azasakayi 00:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

It was on ebay, but it was back in September 2004 I saw this. My point, in case you missed it, was that Be Our Guest was made back in 1991 for 2 reasons. 1: It was a promotion for the limited premiere of the new Beauty & the Beast movie, the following day (there's probally a trailer on that copy) & 2: They were still using vertical white labels (a.k.a the old style tape label) in 1991 Skymac207 23:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Please, Skymac/Mr Wheeler -- why do you insist there was a new tape master, and what is the relevance to this page anyway? The program is identical to the original, with one song removed. I could edit that on my own computer without creating a new tape master. For that matter, every volume which was reissued probably had a new tape master to allow for new promos, new openings, closings etc. It is completely irrelevant to state "new tape master". It wastes space and makes you look even more useless than you already appear. Azasakayi 20:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I already know the re-print from 1992 has the original program, I'm just saying since it had a vertical white label in 1991, the re-print in 1992 has horizontal silk screening, containing the original program, which means it has to say new tape master. Skymac207 23:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing you mean by "horizontal silk screening" that the label is printed on the black tape and not on a "vertical white label". This does not indicate a new tape master, only that the packaging design was changed. Get your facts straight. And be relevant. Azasakayi 18:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. The original 1991 print has a vertical white label & has the red/white FBI warning, orange FBI logo, 1986 HV logo, a trailer for Beauty & the Beast (which this film promoted) & the original program. At the end, an promo for vol.1-7+9. The re-print from 1992 has horizontal silk screening, containing the original program, but uses new green FBI warnings, 1986 HV logo & no trailer. At the end, an advertisement for vol.1-7+9 & 10. I own the 1993 edition, which has the green FBI warnings & 1986 HV logo from the 1992 re-print, no trailer (again) & the program that has that 1 song removed from it. At the end of it's nothing. There you go! Skymac207 15:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

So the 1992 print is different, the 1993 print is different again (deleted song). If we state the changes have been made, and are obvious, there's no need to assume and state "new tape master" without relevant citation. If you didn't hold the "new tape master" in your hand then you don't have any real information. Give us details on your edition, if you must, but tape masters are kind of presumptuous. I also question the inclusion of FBI warning colors, but I know that's your hobby, and that it helps you to identify date of issue. Can't you get over that? Who needs the FBI anyway? In Canada, the FBI warning is a joke to be laughed at and FFed through. We must have verifiable sources for release dates. What qualifies as a verifiable date? Amazon? BVHV? Azasakayi 15:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

All VHS in 1990 or 1991 that has a vertical white labels always have the red/white FBI warning & orange FBI logo 'cause they were still using them in 1991 & all VHS in 1992-1998 have green FBI warnings 'cause they didn't debut 'til 1992. So therefore, the 1991 print has the red/white FBI warnings & when it was re-printed in 1992, it had to have the green FBI warnings because that's when they debuted. End of Story! Case Closed! etc.! P.S., I finally agree that a tape master dosen't matter. Skymac207 15:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change this page to index

It is time for this page to turn into an index page for the Disney Sing Along Songs.

The article is too long -- even the page's index is about two screens deep. There is enough data on every release to stand alone, and infighting over what info to include has depended on available space. With individual title pages, each article could grow as its mythology is accurately accredited, and that would let the nitpickers have a place to include the most trivial information without clogging the article.

I challenge someone competent to execute this plan.

This page should become a summary (like an artist/musician/band page) and link to individual SAS releases (like an artist's album pages).

Establish a template (with all the typical release info like movies) and provide space for images (for proof of existence etc.)

Each volume article should allow for version information (i.e. VHS 1st series versus DVD 4th series).

Even the various "sticker" detail could be included under a Packaging and Promotion subheading.

TEMPLATE

MAIN INDEX PAGE will link to:

Volumes 1 through latest release, each article features:

  • Song List (Original or complete is moot),
  • Original and progressive packaging design (images and text)
  • Credits/links to original Disney releases (where available)
  • Singer/Performer Credits can be subheaded or song linked (moot).

From this, each page may grow itself, far beyond the volume of any one release's original content, but hey, isn't that what Wikipidia is for?

I propose that some volume groupings be maintained, where logical (i.e. All-Time Favorites and Disney Princess). Even Winnie-the-Pooh could be grouped.

Any input or mediation is requested. Everybody wants to have their input respected, and with this format, there would be room for the smaller debates to be segregated and sanctioned.

Help? Can someone set up a template for one release and let's have a look. Azasakayi 18:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

FYI I originally created the articles this way, but Tregoweth merged them all into one article. Please contact him for any comments. Georgia guy 19:07, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
It has been good up to now. However at over 30 volumes with trivia for each is getting unkempt. Early short articles belonged together, but now's the time to split them up. I'll go ahead and build a template if no one else will (I just don't have a lot of experience and would have to learn). Tregoweth? Azasakayi 14:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Most of the trivia probably shouldn't be included (see Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles. I'd take a pass at the article, but I have very little interest in the Sing Along series. —tregoweth (talk) 17:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree we don't need a trivia section, especially if we include appropriate categories (i.e. release date, volume number, Packaging & Promotion, release versions) but the information is valid and can be standardized. I have been messing around with an infobox template but none exists for video series and must be created. Movie or album infoboxes make good foundations, but I'm not wikiknowledgable enough to build a new one correctly. Such a template (infobox:video) would be great for this application, and also for other similar collections (though I cannot think of any similar examples right now). I suppose the infobox:movie would be useful, but lacks some of the SAS specific details we might want (such as volume number, previous/next volume). My attempts at editing a custom infobox or table have been limited by my skills. Azasakayi 18:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Be Our Guest

Why would you think that "Be Our Guest" is 1991 and not 1992? It has to be from 1992, because it features a song from my all-time favorite Disney film (that being The Great Mouse Detective)! Gabrielkat 19:38, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, that doesn't prove it is at least 1992. TGMD was released in 1986. Georgia guy 20:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
  • True, but GMD was re-released to theatres in February 1992. Gabrielkat 00:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry guys, but Be Our Guest is November 12, 1991 'cause 1. It's Tuesday, 2. It was a promotion for the limited premiere of the new Beauty & the Beast movie (there's probally a trailer on that copy) & 3. Its original tape master has a vertical white label, which they were still using in 1991. Angryman301 9:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I've now decided to list Be Our Guest as November 1, 1991 'cause that was when Fantasia came out. Skymac207 11:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Nope, "Be Our Guest" was released in 1992. Gabrielkat 22:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm telling you! "Be Our Guest" was released in 1991 for the following reasons. 1. That's whem Fantasia came out. 2. Beauty & the Beast was in theaters November 13, 1991 for its limited premire & they wanted to promote it with this. (there's probally a trailer for that on that copy) 3. The original tape master has a vertical white label, which they were still using in 1991 & not in 1992. Since they were still using the 1984 FBI warnings in 1991, that very 1st copy has that at the beginning. Angryman301 11:36, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] General formatting debates

1. Major changes in packaging and theme songs are significant to anyone collecting SAS tapes. First series was six tapes. Second series was Volume Numbered 1-12 (including first six reissued). Third series abandoned volume numbers, incorporated Mickey's Fun Songs and dumped Fun With Music. Fourth series saw DVD releases, unnumbered, with new songs, new themes etc.
2. Actual VHS tape labels are fairly irrelevant, except where Skymac207 has pointed out, that they may help to indicate actual release dates based on Disney packaging formats. If this theory can be clearly substantiated, we should accept this method of dating and allow the new/correct dates (however, I'd like to point out to Skymac207 that his life is based on a lie. Disney does not have "FBI" warnings, they only have homemade "copyright" warnings. There is no mention of "FBI" anywhere on early VHS tapes).
3. Muppet Troll vandalism is out of hand. What is with this guy? Is it some sort of Al Qaeda code?
4. What method of citations is recommended/required for statements/release dates? If there is a problem with statements, please include citation needed remarks on every contentious statement.
5. I still say it's time to use this as an index page with links to detailed title pages. Does Wikipedia have some problem with content volume? Is more information not better than less if the info is accurate? Is there some comparable video collection with which to compare this format? Can't we all just get along?
6. Finally, I'm eventually going to get packaging images up here soon. We'll see how that goes. Azasakayi 16:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Apparently there are some differences between the PAL and NTSC versions of both Colors of the Wind and Topsy Turvy. If there are additions/changes like that in the future, you should try to at least explain the why's and wherefore's otherwise they'll keep being deleted. Azasakayi 16:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Twelve Days of Christmas

I spotted a variant on eBay that showed vol.12 "The Twelve Days of Christmas" with the vertical white label texture, so I'm going to list down that volume as December 24, 1991 because they were still using that tape master back in 1991. There's nothing much about it, considering it's holiday release, that means it has just the 1984 FBI warnings & 1986 HV logo at the beginning before the film, but at the end is that Christmas promo for other Christmas films, but doesn't metion the film. It's kinda' like Very Merry Christmas Songs. Skymac207 20:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

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