Talk:Dir en grey

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[edit] About genre adding...

To everyone (including IP contributors), Dir en grey has been changing into different genres within their career; so finding their specific genre is difficult. But it's known they are part of Japanese rock. So please don't add genres (including former ones) like what happened to the recent edits by 207.106.123.38. It only causes some confusion.

-AKnot

[edit] Update

There was another recent edit in which someone added a genre not familer to Dir en grey. Please take that into consideration... If you still didn't catch that, don't add genres unknown to Dir en grey.

AKnot 00:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fan links?

When the Dir en grey wiki came about til now, people have been adding fan links (not including the community and lyric site(s)). Does anybody think this wiki should have fan links at all?

AKnot 00:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I removed the Keloid Milk fan link til further responses and such.

Links to online communities and lyric pages are not that uncommon on Wikipedia and especially the latter fulfills a purpose here, considering this band relies primarily on Japanese (= non-English) lyrics. But that's really as far as linking to unofficial websites should go, lest every musicians article becomes a link aggregator for fansites. Btw, I removed the link to the German site as it has not been updated since May. - Cyrus XIII 16:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Group Picture Update?

After recently looking at Dir en grey's new look on their official web site, does anybody think the wiki should have that current look as their group pic? Thank you... AKnot 00:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I think we might as well wait until the next album is out. A new subsection for the history might make sense by then as well. - Cyrus XIII 08:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Real" names

I have removed all references to the supposed actual names of the band members for now. There should be no attempts to put them back in unless somebody can come up with decent sources. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a rumor mill and that we are dealing with living people here, who certainly would not like to see misinformation about their person here. - Cyrus XIII 08:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logo?

I uploaded their tour background logo.[1]

Would it be fine if the logo was in the wiki (i.e. on top of group pic)?

AKnot 01:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be a neat thing to have, if Dir en grey had something used fairly coherently over the years (like Metallica or X Japan) which would qualify as logo in the sense of corporate identity. But so far, there is a different typesetting for pretty much every release and until that changes, there really isn't much sense in picking one varriation in order to have something at the top of that infobox. Like the idea though. - Cyrus XIII 12:30, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Besides main genre adding...

What about genre adding in albums and singles?

Thoughts?

AKnot 01:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

How about a section in this article titled "Style and subject matter" which elaborates on the band's stylistic development and the content of the lyrics? This would be a lot more informative than adding individual genres to infoboxes of every release which is bound to spark lengthy discussions in several cases ("It's hard rock." - "No, I think it's metal." - "You know, it has a certain pop appeal..."). I've been meaning to start such a section for quite some time, but I never seem to get around to it. - Cyrus XIII 11:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
That's agreeable. After typing the question, I was thinking of that spark discussion as well. That would be a great idea! Describing them originally as a regular J-Rock band and then evolve to more of a metalcore like band. AKnot 01:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget that J-rock and visual kei are not music genres per se, as they really do not describe the style of music at all (except origin and outfits of the artists and maybe the language used). I'd rather use genre handles very sparsely and if any, only more common ones, in order to make the text accessible to people who are not familiar with rock music from Japan. - Cyrus XIII 09:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
All right. I might begin the section soon. AKnot 05:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Done. I would also need help in it to make it look perfect. I got to listen to Agitated Scream of Maggots, do you think it has some swedecore influences? AKnot 02:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I gave the section a small rewrite, limiting the number of genres mentioned, not going too much into detail (song examples) and trying to have it come a bit more directly from the music found on those records, instead of repeating stuff thrown around at web based discussions on this matter. Hope this works for the most people. Sorry about those half-a-dozen-something minor edits following the big one, I could certainly use more sleep these days.

In other news: I'm trying to come up with good tracks to take samples from, in order to illustrate the band's work with actual audio. I would say three would be well in the limits of fair use, one from Gauze, one from Kisou and one from Withering to Death. Suggestions? - Cyrus XIII 07:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Cage (Gauze), Filth (Kisou), The Final or (Withering to death.). I believe those are good suggestions. If it was possible to have more, I would also suggest Macabre (Macabre), umbrella (six Ugly), Obscure (Vulgar), and Grief (The Marrow of A Bone). AKnot 02:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of "Messy" CLEAN UP BANNER

The banner that noted that this section should be cleaned up has been removed I guess until I further clarify what the definition of "messy" is. Particularly what needs fixing is the syntax and the grammar of the article. For example, I will take a typical sentence style that is scattered all around the article. "This caught the attention of Yoshiki Hayashi of X Japan fame, who produced and arranged the singles of their subsequent album, Gauze, released in 1999." Just minor things like that, I feel it needs to be more formal and not so "stylized". Dec 11 2006 12:34 xcuref1endx (UTC)

Apparently you are concerned about the article's style, not the grammar as stated in you original edit summary. Thanks for clearing this up. Well, if these issues are so minor, what exactly keeps you from fixing them? Delegating the task like this might very well result in the banner being removed after a while, because no one agreed with your initial complaint. I certainly do not. While an article can always be more formal, this one is still in a much better shape than many of its peers in terms of style and the subsequent NPOV. But this should not keep you from being bold. Oh and one last thing: New discussion topics go to the bottom of the page. - Cyrus XIII 09:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I fixed some of the grammar. I am not an expert on the band, but I've made some minor changes for clarity. I am new, so sorry if I missed anything up. Thanks, and I hope I helped more than I messed up! Goyston 04:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have rephrased and simplified several sentences as well and if nobody objects, I will remove the cleanup tag within a day or two. - Cyrus XIII 09:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up

I have removed the first sentences that was not important information, then we need some citations, for example that they were the first indie and to enter at the top 10 of the Oricon, i guess that this isn't true so X Japan entered 10 years before as you already know. Then we need also some citations for the Kyo injuries, and then i have deleted the paragraph from the line-up section, most of the bands use nickname and not their first name: Pata (Tomoaki Ishizuka) for example, or Klaha, Közi, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.184.87.104 (talk) 18:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

Your edits have been reverted for the following reasons:
  • Subjects such as current or founding lineup as well as genre are deemed important enough for the first paragraph in most band-related articles on Wikipedia. After all, this paragraph is supposed to deliver a basic overview.
  • The singles X Japan released as an independent band (namely I'll Kill You and Orgasm are conspicuously absent from the group's Oricon listing.
  • The matter of stage names (or nicknames, as you call them) had already been addressed in the paragraph you removed, which was there to make the article more accessible to people not familiar with Japanese bands.
  • Other information you removed is easily verifiable through the band's official website, which is linked no less than twice in this article.
Please remember: While Wikipedia encourages you to be bold in updating articles, try to remain considerate at the same time (see WP:BB). - Cyrus XIII 19:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saku video

why isnt it on the videography?Quatreryukami 19:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The videography covers video-related releases on VHS and DVD, such as concerts and music video collections. The "Saku" video and it's relation to the one for "Kodou" is actually mentioned in the notes for Average Fury and Average Psycho. - Cyrus XIII 03:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

Since in Wikipedia, the names of bands are kept with their respective capitalizations, I was wondering if Dir en grey should be moved to DIERENGREY. If you notice on the latest album, the name is written this way consistently on both the cover and within the booklet. I won't move until sufficient responses have been made, but wouldn't this be considered an official name change? --Jake 22:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually Wikipedia does not always follow official capitalization, as it has a few stylistic guidelines regarding trademarks. Also, before making any wide reaching changes, I would suggest to wait and see whether there has indeed been a permanent change in spelling (Dir en grey → Direngrey). Several pages of the official website still use the variant with two spaces. - Cyrus XIII 23:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, well, as far as capitalization issues, I was speaking of how the page is titled Dir en grey rather than Dir en Grey or Dir En Grey as some places require. Thanks for your input. --24.176.1.18 14:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
If you look at the official site you will see "Dir en grey" everywhere. I don't know about the latest album, but it seems that at least the official site still uses this capitalization. --analoguedragon 19:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Separate articles for concert tours

More recently, some articles have been created to illustrate the band's individual tours. While precedents for such pages exist on Wikipedia, they usually document live efforts by bands who are arguably far more notable than Dir en grey, with internationally successful careers spanning not just barely one but several decades (like Metallica, The Rolling Stones and U2). Apart from information already covered by related articles (like this one or the those dealing with the band's extensive videography) and content copied from the official website's timeline, these articles largely rely on unsourced material. On a lesser note, some also appear to require cleanup with Wikipedia's style guidelines in mind (i.e. WP:ALBUMS).

The links to these articles from this one have been removed for the time being, until aforementioned notability, verifiability and potential copyright issues have been resolved. If someone would like to make improvements, the respective meta article can be found here: List of Dir en grey concert tours - Cyrus XIII 02:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


After reading the article in question, I agree that all problems stated exist. I would also like to say that, being most of the concerts listed have little or no data associated with them, I would even go so far as to say delete it. There's just not enough content to be considered encyclopic. Maybe I'm going too far, but that's what I think. Quatreryukami 17:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

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