Talk:Dianic Wicca
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[edit] Starhawk
I question the inclusion of StarHawk as related to Dianic Wicca. She is very much into pan-gender practice. Maybe she has been influential in some way I don't know about? --Dmerrill
- Comment: Starhawk labels herself as a "Reclaiming Witch". Reclaiming has much closer ties to Feri tradition than Dianic. While Feri shares some beautiful parallels to Dianic tradition, it is most certainly a different path (mainly since it embraces male involvement). 68.226.2.177 09:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Comment: Starhawk's early training included significant experience with Z. Budapest and Feminist Wicca (the store). Some of Starhawk's work is in The Holy Book of Women's Mysteries by Z. Budapest. -SC
I question the inclusion of the Dianic tradition as Wiccan. The teachings are nowhere near the same, and the origins are too far removed.--J. Robinson
I totally agree with Mr. Robinson. Dianic "Wicca" has no real ties and no real line of succession to Gardner and this is one of the most important proofs for realness in the magical scene. --F. Kroener
Comment: Some Dianic Witches would agree with you. However Charles Godfrey Leland (1824-1903), author of Aradia: Gospel of the Witches (1899) would probably not; "Whenever in history there is a period of radical intellectual rebellion against long established conservatism, hierarchy, and the like, there is always an effort to regard Woman as the fully equal, which means the superior sex." -SC
[edit] Moved from Village Pump
Although most Dianics do worship the goddess unto herself, not all Dianics believe that there is no equal god form. In fact, I personally know two ordained McFarlane Dianic Priests. Although rare it does happen. Purley feminist Wicca is a reactionary belief system. It is a sociological backlash against male dominated religions. However, it has the same fault in that it rejects balance in favor of the domination of one form of Deity; hence, it is a psycholoigcal reaction rather than a true belief system. It has served its purpose in showing the fallacy of a amle dominant god from. But, to not understand the sacrifice of the god and the joy and pain the goddess experiences from his arrival and departure from this plane, is to not understand the majesty, beauty and compassion of the goddess herself. Unfortunately, many Dianic Wiccans fail to understadn the true nature of the goddess by ignoring or downplaying her equal and opposite self.
Comment: You are entitled to your Point Of View. However, most Dianics do NOT practice or agree with polarity worship and dualism. Some non-Dianic Wiccans also do not. Personally, I think Dianic Wicca to be an oxymoron, because polarity worship has become The significant belief in American Wicca. -SC
- From personal experience I would agree with SC. Unfortunately the name has stuck. --Mjausson 21:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Comment: I would most certainly disagree that belief in a singular female Deity is a result of "sociological backlash". There are several ancient cultures that began with this practice when left to their own path and even biologically it is easier to understand the female form as the creator (mother) and nurturer without the need for a counter form. Even western science concludes that "all life starts as female" and that the male form is a derivative, so there is plenty of "logic" to a belief system evolving this way. But I digress from the entry, my apologies... 68.226.2.177 09:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed Merges
It has been suggested that Dianic Wicca be merged with Dianic Tradition. I do not think this merger is appropriate; Dianic Wicca is a sub-set of the Dianic Tradition, in the same way Catholicism and Protestantism are sub-sets of Christianity; the articles are NOT redundant. SC 03:26, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
I have proposed that Dianic and Dianic Tradition be merged. SC 03:26, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
- Completing merge Actually, if the articles on Catholicism and Protestantism were as short, we would have them as sub sections under christianity. The Dianic Wicca merger doesn't prevent a future split, it merely consolidates two related topics with little coverage in hopes that the one article will be better maintained. I am completing the merge for Ruth Barret now. I advise future editors to consider the consolidation. Alan.ca 08:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Entirely unreferenced article
This article is entirely lacking in references, and some of it looks like original research. I am especially concerned with sentences like "Despite this, there has been friction between some traditional Wiccans and Dianics; some Wiccans have expressed their concern about "imbalance" in Dianic practice by invading women's groups, shutting down rituals, and denouncing Dianic practitioners. Most pagans are now much more respectful of each other, and consider such behavior extremely inappropriate.", which sound like story-telling from an editor. Is there any source for either of these claims? Jkelly 22:56, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
- Is there a tag (like the POV or Clean Up ones) that can be used to mark the article for this? The Jade Knight 07:13, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I just added {{unreferenced|date=August 2006}} to the top of the article page. Someone clearly did a lot of work on this article. It's a shame that they left little in the way of a clue as to where it came from. Jkelly 07:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
- I'm trying to add some references and clean it up a bit. --Mjausson 21:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I just added {{unreferenced|date=August 2006}} to the top of the article page. Someone clearly did a lot of work on this article. It's a shame that they left little in the way of a clue as to where it came from. Jkelly 07:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
- Part of the problem is the lack availability of independent documentary on the issues but for what little it's worth, I can personally vouch having observed some of the issues mentioned. These issues were much stronger and obvious in the 1970-80's but Dianics are starting to receive (and return) more respect as the original quote claimed. I too am curious who wrote it, can you tell if the author was from the USA (east or west) or elsewhere by the IP? 68.226.2.177 09:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Definitely US, just by experience of the religion ;-) Bridesmill 01:28, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I find the representation of Dianic Paganism as being "women-only" or ultra-feminist highly misleading and inaccurate. At least in my own limited experience, I have participated in male-led Dianic rites, and seen gender-balanced covens focused on Dianic worship. I don't know who wrote the page, but it seems largely written by somebody with no knowledge or experience of Dianic ritual. 12.130.59.99 16:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
- I just tried entering "dianic wiccan" into google and hitting the "I feel lucky" button. The page it came up with described the tradition as "feminist" and "women-only". I'm not saying Google is the be-all and end-all of research, however the sheer quantity of material on the net purporting to be written by Dianics and describing the tradition in these same terms is difficult to ignore. I'm not Dianic, but I have met people who claim to be Dianic and seem to agree on its being feminist and women-only. The founders, women like Zsuzsanna Budapest, seem to have intended it this way.
- I would guess that there are mixed-gender groups, and that these are a more modern innovation within the tradition. Oh, and just in case you're not aware (but you probably are, so forgive me), Dianic Wicca doesn't just mean the worship of Diana — it means a specific Feminist Goddess tradition begun in the 60s. Fuzzypeg☻ 04:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I might add that the idea of Dianic practice as some sort heresy or psychological abnormality is quite perverted. It is like this page and talk-section were written by people who don't get it. At all. The whole idea of paganism is anti-theological to the core. If you explain the differences between different modes of pagan worship theologically, you don't get. You don't get it at all.12.130.59.99 16:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Citations added.
