Talk:Diamond

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I heard that the DTC assortment book was modified in 2006 and is now around 14,000 price points rather than 16,000. The DTC's Russian intake decreases every year due to its agreement with the European Union competition authorities so its market share has presumably gone down (it closed a couple of mines in ZA and the new mine in Snap Lake hasn't started up yet).

Contents

[edit] Archives

I archived the talk page (First 5 archives). The talk page was getting way too long. Please help fix any mistakes I might have made. Each archive is about 32 kilobytes long. Abby724 23:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If you watch the History Channel about Blood Diamonds, you'd know that we must help all people immediately by giving every person a Guaranteed Income (RFID) because they had their hands cut off, all for diamonds! USA has to lead the world in ending the wage system because it is slavery! God is putting this in all people's hearts to end the wage so now we just have to do it & help millions of starving children & adults worldwide. It's very urgent! It's the only way to end all of these horrible crimes! Sundiiiaaa 03:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

"Helping people" by giving them "a Guaranteed Income (RFID)" is beyond the scope of an encyclopedia--Wikipedia solicits donations, it doesn't give them. Please search for NGOs (Non-governmental organizations) or advocacy groups that interest you to assist in spreading your message, if it really is your intention to "end all of these horrible crimes." Speaking to a small group of editors on Wikipedia is a waste of effort, when there are solid advocacy groups with large audiences available. If you would like to add factual material about diamonds and their economics to the article, please discuss it here first, provide references, and join in making the Wikipedia article on diamonds useful and relevant. Thanks, KP Botany 01:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok. But shouldn't encyclopedia's say the truth? The wage is slavery, & employees are slaves, & corporations are slave plantations? I think that would help us to quickly end world poverty. Maybe someone could compare a corporation to a slave plantation, & mention that many slaves were able to BUY their own freedom so they were obviously paid, but not much, just like most people today (McDonalds, Wal-Mart etc)? Can we talk about this in a sandbox (where is it)? Sundiiiaaa 18:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC) 1/11/07

[edit] Diamond Sutra

Maybe a link to Diamond Sutra should be included in the article?--RF 21:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why no mention of USSR?

I think it should be mentioned that the USSR created mechines that could actually MAKE yellow diamonds (the rarest of them all). Sadly they have been dismantled but some have been restored and in use outside Russia.

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.151.94.15 (talk • contribs).

hmmm... yellow rare? chuckle... An article on lab created diamonds should include this yes. SauliH 17:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


-Yellow and brown fancy colored diamonds are the most common colored ones. It's the pink, blue, green and red diamonds that are very rare.Garfieldt 12:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

-Actually, from what I understand:

  • yes, obvious yellowish tinted diamonds that range from N to Z on the diamond color scale are the most common. I believe only 1% of all diamonds are colorless enough (D-J) to be gem quality.
  • BUT, once the yellow color becomes more intense beyond Z on the grading scale and is evenly saturated to what is called a "fancy yellow" (especially "fancy vivid" or "fancy intense") then they are actually more rare than white diamonds when natural. Alhough yes, fancy colors other than yellow are even more rare than fancy yellow.
  • yes, USSR created HPHT machines that can make real fancy colored diamonds (not diamond simulants but real diamonds!)
  • BUT, they weren't the first to do so AND they weren't dismantled. Gemesis diamond down in Florida have bought the machines and still make fancy colored diamonds with them today, they can make any color diamond you want except colorless (the only ones that can make real colorless diamonds is newcomer Apollo Diamond.)

-Fromos 01:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk about vandalism.

Somebody should fix that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.117.157.66 (talk • contribs).

[edit] References

All of the statements made in the "Symbolism and the occult" section are under the one reference I added a while back, "Encyclopedia of the Occult", Spence, Lewis, 1960. All five of them are linked the the reference below, but should the whole section have that one reference instead? ~ PHDrillSergeant...§ 16:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

See the Optical properties - this is ambiguous - do most diamonds fluoresce of not the middle of the paragraph says not the end says do. I'm not sure what the original contributor intended to say? Are you monitoring? --Dayorkmd 00:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)DYork

[edit] Contradictory sentence on diamond fluorescence

The article reads:

"Most diamonds show no fluorescence although colored diamonds show a wider range of fluorescence than the blue fluorescence normally observed in clear diamonds."

Hmmm. "Most diamonds show no fluorescence" but "blue fluorescence [is] normally observed in clear diamonds"  ?????

I don't know from diamonds, but I know a contradiction when I see one. Someone who knows diamonds needs to fix this.Daqu 04:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


I remember reading that artificially created diamonds fluoresce but natural ones don't, I'll look into this a little bit later. BebopBob 04:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Natural diamonds can and do flouresce. It is a characteristic that can be exhibited in diamonds. Flouresence is used to seperate diamonds from ore. (I have yet to understand how the non-flourescing diamonds are seperated - anyone in diamond mining out there?) Blue is the most common color, yellow is less common. The Hope diamond flouresces red. The percentage of diamonds - needs to be researched, and the article needs correction. SauliH 05:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The section is confusing because it discusses fluorescence from two sources:long wave ultrviolet and X-ray. X-ray initiated fluorescence is used in the diamond ore processing by Sortex machine technology. A bit of googling returned the following:
The ore passes on a covered conveyor belt through a Sortex machine. The Sortex machine beams an X-Ray over the ore, which will cause any freed diamonds to fluoresce. When a light detector identifies the fluorescent diamonds, the Sortex machine sends a blast of air to knock the diamond off the conveyor belt and into a secured recovery chamber.
from http://sec.edgar-online.com/1997/04/14/00/0001017062-97-000644/Section2.asp - a profile of Global Diamond Resources, Inc
Also mentioned in Barren Lands: An Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic by Kevin Krajick.
Vsmith 12:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Added a section on fluorescence which should clear all this up Fromos 23:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cartel

The diamond cartel is so successful that the wikipedia entry for Diamonds doesn't even mention the word cartel. 85.205.254.135 13:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you know that International Gemmological Institute, has no right more to be member of the bourse in Antwerp. So I would be very carefull when you mention a company who is well know to make fake certificates. Never forget that when you bying a diamond certified or certified trough a jewellry,helas for the industry, they will sell you a false certifiate, (grading a false color or clarity or shape.In a certificate, the laboratory, will never take the responsability of the analising result. I LET YOU GUESS WHY. If you think bying a diamond for investment,you will never receive back the costprice, but much more less. Hope to help the public to be aware of the dangers.

                         James Harris

I will try to give a follow up, for the sake of the public, about the industry depending the available possibilities. james Harris

The diamond certification authorities you describe do not reflect the consensus of the diamond trade. The two main certification authorities used by the top tier of jewelers are the HRD (the official body of the Belgian diamond industry) and the GIA. Certainly laboratories like EGLUSA should not be mentioned without a caution.213.2.22.144 23:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hardest Metal

I just happened upon this article when the first sentence correctly declared that diamonds are the hardest metal known the man. When I refreshed, this fact was replaced with some bogus information about "natural materials" or something. Everyone on the internet knows that diamonds are a metal, and not just any metal, but the hardest metal known the man. Just look at this quote from a top expert in gemology:

"Diamond is one of the hardest metals (If not THE hardest metal) known the man. Definitely much harder than anything walls are made out of these days."

-Professor Z. L. Cable June 13, 2005


-Arn't diamonds minerals, not metals? Garfieldt 12:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

-This is strange to me. Earlier in the article in the Electrical Conductivity section it states that diamonds are either insulators or semiconductors. Metals, by conventional definition in material sciences, are conductive. I can only surmise that this is a misprinting of the "hardest material" as can be found on pages such as www.webelements.com or any other number of web sites that do thorough checking on their science. And though diamonds is a mineral so is silver, which is a metal. If there is a reliable source that claims diamond to be metal please provide it as the references that I found with a google search found it quoted by a mock-encyclopedia and myspace sites. It is possible that the term "metal" is being used in some other fashion, though I don't think that is the case.

-Chemgarcia 07:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Chemgarcia, this is, as the date shows, a very old comment. The article does not state that diamonds are metals. Maybe I missed it, so copy and paste if it's still there.KP Botany 01:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The diamond is a metal statement is an insertion made by a vandal under different user names/IP's see this recent block User:Incrediblechicken. If it rears it ugly head please report to Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism for immediate blocking. SauliH 04:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Gemstones and Jewellery???

Would anyone else be interested in a WP for this subject. I see a lot of holes that could use expansion. Anyone? SauliH 17:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article should be locked

there is too much vandalism going on.--F3rn4nd0 BLA BLA BLA 18:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] some wierd ass diamond song

and i quote "Diamondsare forever, They are all I need to please me, They can stimulate and tease me, They won't leave in the night, I've no fear that they might desert me. Diamonds are forever, Hold one up and then caress it, Touch it, stroke it and undress it, I can see ev'ry part, Nothing hides in the heart to hurt me. I don't need love, For what good will love do me? Diamonds never lie to me, For when love's gone, They'll lustre on. Diamonds are forever, Sparkling round my little finger. Unlike men, the diamonds linger; Men are mere mortals who Are not worth going to your grave for. I don't need love, For what good will love do me? Diamonds never lie to me, For when love's gone, They'll lustre on. Diamonds are forever, forever, forever. Diamonds are forever, forever, forever. Forever and ever. is the hardest".... ???? the fuck???? i'll change it back... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.255.66.194 (talk) 00:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] famous diamonds

shouldn't there be a sup topic on famous diamonds? like the kohi-noor and the hope etc.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.92.139.81 (talk) 18:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Commodity Fetishism

A link to this subject has been entered on numerous occasions, and I have removed it for the following reasons -

1. The See Also section is intended for related articles. Articles that relate to the topic of Diamonds in this instance.
2. Commodity Fetishism is a Marxist theory that relates to luxury goods, and at present makes absolutely no discussion of diamonds.
3. Due to there being no relationship, the link is made purely on the supposition that Diamonds are an example of a luxury good that fits the theory of Commodity Fetishism.
4. An example is insufficient grounds to make the reference to the other article, when one could apply this suppositional POV to ANY consumer good. That would mean that simply on someones whim the article Television could be referenced to that article because they felt it was an example of Commodity Fetishism

I will be removing any link made to this article. SauliH 05:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diamonds and value/expense

The question of whether diamonds should be termed valuable or expensive is important. When an appraisal is done on an item, it is valued at market value - ie the price a willing buyer and a willing seller will pay. If an item is expensive it connotes that in relation to that market, the item is 'overpriced' ie the price is too high. Conversely, a cheap item is an item that is underpriced. When you compare diamond and graphite you are comparing apples to oranges. To pay $25 for a graphite drawing implement may be expensive, but to pay $1000 for a 1 carat diamond of excellant quality is cheap. To correctly state that diamond fetches a high price than graphite, is to state that it has more value. For this reason I am reverting the recent edit. SauliH 03:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Word meanings are not always universal, and I disagree that "expensive" always carries semantic connotations of overpricing. (It doesn't, not for me.) For me it just means that the market price is objectively high, regardless of its market equilibrium.
For me, valuable is slightly irrelevant to price; air is valuable, but cheap, for example.
I've been in a couple of similar situations, and I think the best way to resolve these problems is to come up with a paraphrase. ;) We need one that doesn't use "valuable" or "expensive." --Kjoonlee 04:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I am fine with costly. Thanks for the compromise. SauliH 04:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fact tag overuse

The recent addition of overabundant fact tags to, in some cases, every sentence in a section is quite absurd and renders the finished page ugly and difficult to read. The material in the article when the FA status was achieved was very well referenced with the general references, now a citation fanatic seems intent on disrupting the flow of the article with ugly fact tags all over the place. It seems to me that the vast majority of these tags are quite unneeded. Please only apply them to possibly controversial material and not to generally common information that is available in a variety of general refs. Vsmith 16:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I admit I am a citation fanatic. The article lacks direct citations of assertions made which require a specific source for verification. I acknowledge that I did go somewhat overboard, and am jhappy with a toning down of the tags. I would hope that this article can have a greater level of citation applied to it. to bring it back up to FA status. Cheers. SauliH 21:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TTLB and TTLC diamonds

Hello My name is erhan and I m from Turkey,I like to read more information about TTLB TTLC colored diamond and how do they priced? also I like to read and see the color grade of TTLB and TTLC diamond ..

[edit] Article Structure

At present certain topics are discussed throughout the article, despite there being specific sections for their discussion. For instance the usage of diamonds is discussed throughout the materials section, even though there is a whole subsection dealing with diamond usage. Someone could copyedit the article with this in mind. SauliH 22:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccuracy in section 2.1 (Formation)

"Diamonds cannot form beneath oceanic crust because the lithosphere is too thin to reach the pressures required for diamond stability" gets it more or less backwards. The temperatures at which diamonds form are high compared to the Earth's surface, but low compared to the Earth's ambient temperature at the appropraite depth. Within the Earth, pressure is a function of depth, without much lateral variation. The significant difference between ocean and stable continent, where diamonds are concerned, is one of temperature, not pressure -- at sufficient depth to reach the required pressure, oceanic mantle is too hot to produce diamonds. Thick cratonic lithosphere is required because it's colder than the rest of the mantle, and reaches the appropriate depth for diamond formation.

204.112.133.75 05:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

(Went ahead and corrected it. I've tried not to alter the writing style or structure.)

204.112.133.75 05:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Diamonds....Beautiful arent they?

Actually this whole section is extremely difficult to read. And many of the statements seem to be out of order. ie:"Diamonds rise to the Earth surfaces in molten rock, that commence at substantial intensity (What commences? Rocks? Diamonds? What do they commence doing? What is intense?). Diamonds cannot form beneath oceanic crust because the oceanic mantle is too hot at the appropriate depth. Diamonds that contain tiny amounts of other elements dramatically change the electrical properties of diamonds (this section has little to nothing to do with the preceding and following statements). Thick continental lithosphere is cooler than asthenosphere at the same depth, reaching the required pressure at a low enough temperature for diamond stability." I suggest someone with knowledge on the subject thoroughly edit it.colincbn

It seems someone has cleaned up this article beautifully. What else would it need to regain its featured status? Colincbn 17:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tons of syntetic diamonds

All tons are not the same. A “long ton” equals 2,240 pounds; a “short ton” 2,000 pounds; and a “metric ton” 2,204.62 pounds. International data are usually cited in metric tons, see Ton#Common abbreviations. And yes, this is confusing. Antonio Carlos Porto 22:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


I dispute the link given after the sentence about jewellers noticing a correlation between cleanliness and the marriage quality. It's a fairly dodgy site. Naysie 23:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism of page

82.196.41.2 15:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC) The diamond article has suffered vandalism. Under the section on hardness the text has been recoloured and an "I love wikipedia" message added.

Has been fixed. Anyone can restore a page to an unvandalized revision, see Help:Reverting on how you can help. Femto 15:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Scoring?

Diamond is the hardest natural material known, scoring 10 on the relative Mohs scale of mineral hardness[2]

Thats a bit of an odd way to put it. Diamond was CHOSEN to be mineral #10 on a scale that has 10 minerals. It didn't "score" a 10. That would imply that 10 had some meaning independent of diamond. Diamond was labled 10. So in mohs scale, 10 just means "diamond". Brentt 22:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. SauliH 00:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling discussion - American English/British English

The spelling in this article varies from American english to "British" english depending on the editor who has contributed. For instance we have this sentence with a variety of color/colour

When the color is saturated enough in yellow or brown diamonds, a stone may be referred to as a fancy colored diamond by the gem trade, otherwise they are graded for colour in the normal colour range of white diamonds.[citation needed] Colored diamonds contain impurities or structural defects that cause the colouration, while pure or nearly pure diamonds are transparent and colorless.

Wikipedia policy on spelling standardization is here, and offers little help except to state that we should standardize the article in one spelling standard. Which should we standardis/ze with? I am Australian (British english) but live in the US so I can go either way, and really have no opinion. Something should happen though. I do not want to change them to one or the other at this point AND I think we should all have this discussion before we leap into it and annoy others. SauliH 18:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

As both are "standard", I would say go with the usage that's used more frequently in the whole article now, and stick with that for the future. --Fru1tbat 18:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As I read the article it appears to me that American english is more in use. But all spelling looks correct to me these days, so picking out the variants is not as easy. If the weight of the article is towards American spelling than the manual of style leads us in the direction of most common spelling variance. What spelling variation does the article appear to lean towards to you? SauliH 18:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

When the article became a featured article, the spelling was consistently American English. -- Jasper 06:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I standardized the spelling to the American style. I did this based on the fact that the section of this article that refers to a diamonds color is titled "Color" as per American spelling standards. If anyone takes exception to this by all means change it back but I request you change every use of the word including section names in order to maintain standardization. I think this should settle this issue. --colincbn

[edit] Cut Quality

Garry Holloway asked me (via private e-mail) to change the spelling of IdealScope to Ideal-Scope. Since www.idealscope.com redirects to www.ideal-scope.com, I made the change. He also asked, "if it is within [Wikipedia's] rules", if Ideal-Scope could be "a hyper link to www.ideal-scope.com". Since GemEx is already a link to gemex.com, this seemed reasonable to me. While I was at it, I cleaned up the paragraph's grammar. -- Jasper 07:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I was reading this article when I noticed that it said diamond is the third hardest material known, but then later goes on to state that diamond can be stratched by 4 other materials. If this is true, then wouldn't diamonds be the fifth hardest material?

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