Talk:Devil Gene

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Contents 1 Problems with this Article 2 devil gene activation 3 No original research or speculation allowed 4 Volcano Incident

[edit] Problems with this Article

The article states, "Canonically, the earliest member in the Tekken storyline who held it is Jinpachi Mishima". However, this is not canonical. Nowhere does it say in the actual Tekken storyline that Jinpachi had the devil gene, only that he was "posessed by a demon". This article seems very one-sided, it barely even touches on the fact that the demon that posessed Jinpachi and the Devil Gene could be different entities even though this is the more canonically-supported explanation. There is much original thought in this article about the Devil Gene, especially the theory about how "desperate" you must be for the gene to take effect. This article also seems to have a problem with weasel words: "many believe that the Devil Gene predates this". Wikipedia is not a website for assumptions and speculations, but phrases such as "it can be assumed" are all over in this article. I think this article should focus primarily on the confirmed, canonical facts about the devil gene and less on the speculation about it. --Chandra K. 05:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, Heihachi states in either his or Kazuya's story mode that thing inside Jinpachi is a Devil. King Zeal 16:13, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hm, I see now in Heihachi's story mode he says that Jinpachi has "Devil's Blood", but I still don't believe that this is necessarily the same as the Devil Gene, though I suppose it supports that theory more. Still, I think that much of this article falls under "new interpretation of the facts". Too much is simply speculation, which I think should be toned down or removed. --Chandra K. 22:13, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The main problem is that the information in the canon story is contradictory. Jinpachi has "Devil's Blood", it's stated several times in the story that the Mishima family (as opposed to only a few members) is "cursed" , and all of the Devils seem to have a current catalyst for activation (the moment of the host's imminent death). And yet, at the same time, Heihachi lacks it and Kazuya seems to be the first person to attain it. A lot of the confusion can be attributed to the shift in style between Tekken 3 and Tekken 4. Tekken 4 attempted to change details surrounding the Tekken series to make it more "realistic" (Ogre became a "bio-weapon" and the Devil became a "gene"). Tekken 5 seems to be attempting to bridge the two ideas by simply saying that the entire family is cursed. King Zeal 05:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Heihachi does state that, but it's still not a good source, how would Heihachi know what possesses Jinpachi? Jinpachi says himself that he acctually died then something came and took him over, he never mentions a devil gene or the devil. I think this about the family being "cursed" is more of a way of speaking rather than an acctual fact, but that's just my interpretation. The part about how "desperate" you have to be might be true but still it really has no canonical sources. I think we should tone down some of the speculation and let the reader do the speculations for themselves. Aeneiden-Rex 08:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

If it's not a "good" source, what would you define as such? A character directly stating a plot point in a story should take precedent. Heihachi is more of an expert of "Devils" and "Devil blood" than most other characters in the series except probably Kazuya. Therefore, his dialogue is as credible a source as any. The only way I can really see there being room to argue in this is if there was a screw-up in the translation. It's possible that Heihachi merely said "demon" in the original Japanese version and it was mistranslated as "Devil", but other than that, it's definitely notable.

In addition, I don't see where an argument over the interpretation of words is going to lead. My interpretation says Heihachi means "Devil". Yours says differently. Who's right? There's no way to know. There's no point in arguing. King Zeal 12:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Heihachi still doesn't know that it's devil he thinks that it's devil, therefore it's questionable as a source. But it could be a mis-translation, as you said, but I don't know japanese so I wouldn't know. Jinpachi refers to it as a "thing". I think the article should note that Heihachi refers to it as devil but no more than that, we don't need more specualtion. But still as Chandra K said "Nowhere does it say in the actual Tekken storyline that Jinpachi had the devil gene, only that he was "posessed by a demon"" whether he is possessed by devil or a demon or whatever it might be, remains to be answered. Maybe we'll get the anwers in T6. Aeneiden-Rex 12:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

That sounds fine except for a few question I have:

How do you know what Heihachi knows and doesn't know? What makes Jinpachi's statement more trustworthy than Heihachi's? And where does it specifically say that Jinpachi was taken over by a demon? King Zeal 13:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the article should state that Jinpachi was taken over by a "thing" as he states it himself in the game, however it should be noted that Heihachi does refer to it as "devil" but let's leave all the speculation to the reader. You said it yourself to me that "weasel words" should be avoided. Aeneiden-Rex 13:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not "weasel words" if the character himself says it. But, it's speculation no matter how you spin it.King Zeal 13:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

He might not have it. Kazuya could be the first to have it. That would explain why Heihachi doesn't have one. Kazuya could have obtained it when Devil first possessed him. - The 4th Snake

[edit] devil gene activation

Only in my opinion. There is something that most people may not have notice or overlooked is the nature of all the Devils in Tekken before their host's apparent death. Something each person has that Heihachi doesn't have or really has not experianced. It is that Jinpachi, Kazuya, and Jin where all good hearted and good soul people in nature as it has been implied in many subject on each person and their bios. Also they were betrayed by someone they loved very much (Jinpachi, his on son, Kazuya, his own father when he was young, and Jin, his grandfather. All of which died or almost at the hand of Heihachi)which hurt their hearts and let it give into the dark curse in their blood. Plus with them dead or on the verge of death the "devil" inside had enough power to overcome their good souls in their heart and take over it's host body with in turn gave the host body life, strength and the power to survive and recover. Also that dying by the hand or actions of a loved family member my have an effect on the cursed blood. Ya you can say the Kazuya betrayed Heihachi but as it seems Heihachi never loved his son after his wife died and it was revenge that made Kazuya do what he did. Plus as implied in his on bio, Heihachi never had a good heart or soul after his wife passed(as it seems all the events of the Mishima family's problems began after that day). Plus he is ten times stronger than any normal man to survive that fall at the end of Tekken with may have be contribute to him by being evil and my have some access to the curse bloods strength.

As for Angel's part. the Kazuma family is "blessed" with the angel's power to supress the Devil gene or cursed blood of the Mishimas, and long ago my have a closer tie in to each others families then first thought. Maybe their ancestors were friends or even family that branched off and forgot about one another. Spliting the good half with the evil half. Just something you fan heads like myself that follows Tekken may need to look at or think about. -Heat P.

Unfortunately, while that's a very well thought-out and elaborate theory, we can't put into the article. It's still Original Research--something that is strictly forbidden here on Wikipedia. King Zeal 16:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No original research or speculation allowed

All we are allowed to do is state facts from the source material. Do NOT add speculation or ambiguous statements to the section on Jinpachi. 64.236.245.243 17:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volcano Incident

The article states that Kazuya was thrown into the volcano as a child, and although Xiaoyu's Tekken 5 ending seems to support this, the Tekken 4 prologue does not. Should the page be revised, or is the Tekken 4 prologue wrong?69.245.238.206 01:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)