Talk:Deutsche Reichsbahn of the GDR

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[edit] Name, etc.

The introductory paragraph read:

The Deutsche Reichsbahn or DR (German State Railways) was the national railway service of the German Democratic Republic (GDR). The DR was formed in 1949 from the components of the former Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft (DRG) in the Soviet Occupation Zone of Germany (which became the GDR on 1949-10-07). The components of the DRG in West Germany formed the Deutsche Bundesbahn (DB).

There are a couple of problems with this that I have aimed to correct.

• Reichsbahn can be translated as "state railways" but the more usual translation of Reich is "empire," which helps explain why the word was not used for other post-1945 public institutions. It's a bit disingenuous to translate this as State without comment, considering that the word is, and was, controversial in Germany.

• The definition of "Deutsche Reichsbahn" as the GDR railway and the previous national railway as the "Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft" is arbitrary; the earlier railway was also most commonly called the "Deutsche Reichsbahn." The German Wikipedia lists the 1920 corporation as "Deutsche Reichsbahn" and the East German one as "Deutsche Reichsbahn (Ostdeutschland)." Gesellschaft simply means "corporation" and was never commonly used to describe it, any more than you might choose nowadays to eat a McDonald's Corporation hamburger. I suggest we move this page to "Deutsche Reichsbahn (East Germany)" or similar and the Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft page to Deutsche Reichsbahn, as the latter was the first, and larger, of the two.

• The railway (arguably) wasn't formed in 1949; it was, under GDR law, a continuation of the existing railway by that name, once the railways had been returned to German ownership by the allies. I've rephrased this.

ProhibitOnions 21:17, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

How do you translate Deutsche Reichsbahn, especially in the context of a communist country? The textbook translation of "Reich" is "empire", but that is misleading in reference to a country like the GDR that by ideology was against imperialism. Other translations proposed (see the the introduction of the Weimar Republic article) might be "commonwealth" or "realm",- both terms, however, seem awkward when used as "German Commonwealth/Realm Railway". They just do not work. "German State Railway" is not literal, but conveys the meaning. Ekem 15:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Whatever we might think of the GDR's claim to being "against imperialism", it continued to use the name of the German Imperial Railways because had it not done so it would have lost control of the railways in West Berlin. It would be disingenuous to translate Reich as a neutral (or socialist) term such as "State" without explanation. The reason for the use of the name is given in the article; the German article goes into greater detail as to the treaties and agreements specifying the "Deutsche Reichsbahn" as the West Berlin railway. Otherwise they would certainly have renamed it. I can translate the German section if there is a greater need for it; the part about the name issue in the English article is a simpler paraphrase. ProhibitOnions 21:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

I have moved this page to Deutsche Reichsbahn of the GDR and will create a disambiguation page at Deutsche Reichsbahn pointing to both here and the Deutsche Reichsbahn-Gesellschaft article so people can clearly see the both Reichsbahns are not the same entity. --Doco 10:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)