User talk:Desiphral

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[edit] Welcome message

Welcome!

Hello, Desiphral, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

--millosh (talk (sr:)) 21:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two alphabet Wikipedias etc.

I am glad to see that Romany Wikipedia started. There are a lot of Roma people in Serbia and I am completely unsure about their language. It seems that it is Romano-Serbian language, but, as far as I know, there is not only one Roma language in Serbia... One of the projects of Wikimedia Serbia and Montenegro would be opening Romano-Serbian Wikipedia. Linguists started to work on that language and education begun; and we should help this project. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 21:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

We are in the phase of waiting for implementation for two alphabets and two standards Wikipedia (there would be four version of Serbian Wikipedia). You can see some of our results at http://conversion.vikipedija.org/. This version would allow us to write (only) in Cyrillic, but to have read-only Latin version, too. The next step is implementation of read-write version. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 21:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

In this moment we need some people who know PHP and want to help to the project (if you know someone, let me know). This is not Serbian specific problem, but I know that a lot of languages need the same. I think that Romany problem is not so big (Serbian has two axis and a list of exceptions...). You can send to me the conversion table for Romany and I would implement it very soon (but just in read-only version). Also, I need your language file (something like LanguageRom.php). My email is millosh@mutualaid.org. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 21:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Even it is possible to write in both alphabets in this version (only local alphabet policy is saying what it should be), I would recommend to you to use only one alphabet (analyse what alphabet is more often and use it) until the implementation is full (i.e. read-write). Because the implementation of full version would be more easy. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 21:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to ask me anything about the conversion. Also, I would like to get some help in understanding Roma languages/dialects. Because I am not sure that 500 years of different life can leave language(s) untouched. And all people should have Wikipedia in their native language. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 21:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Redundant categories

You are adding a redundant category to a lot of "Cuisine of *" articles. For example, Category:Indian cuisine is a subcategory of Category:DEsi Cuisine, so if an article has Indian cuisine as a category, adding Category:Desi cuisine is redundant. Thanks. --Ragib 00:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. the desi cat is redundant.--Dangerous-Boy 07:41, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] India related links

Links for Wikipedians interested in India content

Newcomers: Welcome kit | Register: Indian Wikipedians | Network: Noticeboard (WP:INWNB) Browse: India | Open tasks | Deletions
Contribute content: Wikiportal India - Indian current events (WP:INCE) India collaboration of the week (WP:INCOTW) - Category adoptions


Pl. use edit summaries. --Gurubrahma 10:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Desi Jews

Hello Desiphral: Welcome to Wikipedia. You recently created Category:Desi Jews but there is no article or known description about what EXACTLY a "Desi Jew" actually is? I tried searching on Google and could find nothing! "Desi Jews" is not a known or used name and Wikipedia has a very firm rule against "original research" see Wikipedia:No original research and no neologisms. Please do not add this "category" or the name "Desi" to articles until you can clarify this matter further. If there is no solid explanation, then Category:Desi Jews will be nominated for deletion. Thanks for your cooperation, and I look forward to hearing from you soon. IZAK 10:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello! I made the article Desi Jews. I see the term is not well known, so I wrote there what I know about this issue. Waiting for comments, Desiphral 00:46, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Desiphral: Thanks for the article, it has really helped. It does seem to be making some sense now. I have Wikified and edited the article a little. By the way, it would really help if you could find some online links and articles about "Desi Jews" and then add them as "Exernal links" to the article -- that will help remove the suspicion that this is only "original research" on your part. Thanks again, and enjoy Wikipedia. IZAK 05:39, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I added some external links. As I wrote in the on-going discussion, the subject seems to be poorly covered. Thank you for your interest, Desiphral 02:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] piedmontese sinto - request for contact/info

Hi! I am currently working on the new pms wiki both as a sysop (as soon as I get appointed LOL) and community builder. One of the 5 historical languages of our region (along with piedmontese, arpitan, occitan and walser) is the language of the piedmontese sinto. All I know is that they exist, and that they all speak piedmontese, too. The few other bits I got are from [1]. I really wish I could get in contact with them, to ask them to nominate someone to tell their people story. I'd rate it stupid if it was us telling it, since they can tell it themselves. If you have no direct contact with them, then I will appreciate any data you could give me about them. I seem to understand that your languages are mutually understandable (I refer to the word "girl" only, as I said I have very little data). If so pls confirm, and I will add your edition in the friends and neighbours area. Thank you. NOTE, the direct link to my pms page is going to expire soon, since we are almost finished with the interface tranlastion, if the link gets broken just use the stable version, that will be working on the piedmontese interface. --Bertodsera 21:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC) pms:Utente:Bèrto_'d_Sèra Stable link will be pms:Utent:Bèrto_'d_Sèra.

[edit] Re: Desi

At least, Indian subcontinent is a more precise term than South Asia. I don't think South Indians, Afghans, Pashtuns and Baloochs are called Desi. Also note that Indian subcontinent is defined as the landmass lying south of the Himalayas, west of the Hindu-Kush and Baloochistan. Indian subcontinent is a much more broader term than Indian Plate and is the perfect term for the concerned topic. Also note that South Asia is a very confusing term. During the Cold War, all of Asia other than the Soviet Union was known as Southern Asia. And a person wouldn't be wrong if he includes Thailand as a part of South Asia because technically Thailand does lie in South Asia. --Spartian 15:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

So who said the term Indian subcontinent includes only the Republic of India? Indian subcontinent is a geographic term and South Asia is a political one. India is a historic term and Republic of India is political term. If you insist, go ahead and revert my edit. --Spartian 16:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Desi

P.S. I'd like to ask you if you want to make an article (stub) in the Chinese wiki (and if you can in Japanese) of the article Desi from English. Thanks! Desiphral 18:27, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

No problem - I will write one up shortly. -- Jose77, 22:33 Wednesday 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Done. [2] -- Jose77, 02:52 Thursday 6 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] List of Roma people

I changed the listing for "Fanfare Ciocârlia" to "Fanfare Ciocărlia" because, regardless of whether it's correct Romanian or not, that's how the band spells their name--on their website, on all their albums, and on their promotional materials. The Wikipedia entry has been changed to Fanfare Ciocărlia also, so your reverting my change in List of Roma people creates a double redirect. -- Takwish 14:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi--thanks for the reply on my talk page. I think their name may actually be incorrect Romanian, but this is, indeed, how the band consistently spells it. Their manager and producer, Henry Ernst, who is a German, actually came up with the name. According to this account (pdf), he did intend the meaning to be "lark's song," but, not being a native Romanian speaker, he could well have gotten the spelling wrong. My understanding (from online dictionaries) is that the word for lark or skylark in Romanian is ciocârlie. Is there a chance that the modified spelling ciocărlia could indicate a shift in meaning to something lke "lark's song" or "...of the lark"? Or do you think it's really just an error? Also, since you're a native Romanian speaker, would you mind taking a look at the entry itself? My sources for the spelling of the names of the band's members are inconsistent with respect to the diacritical marks. What's there now is my best guess. Does the spelling of those names appear to be reasonable? -- Takwish 15:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! -- Takwish 16:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Roma - Romany or Romani?

Your recently made a change to the spelling of "Romany" to "Romani" at the Turkish music article. My English dictionary gives it as "Romany" and it doesn't provide the alternate spelling you use - and ultimately people reading this may not understand that spelling to be referring to the Indic branch - if indeed your spelling isn't one recognised in the English language (which the article is written in). Can you provide me a link or dictionary that uses this spelling in English? Thanks. 193.201.128.141 21:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I presented here this issue. Here you may find a dictionary entry for the Romani variant. Mostly, this is the variant that it is favoured by many Roma themselves. All the best, Desiphral 21:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


Thank you very much for your response and clearing that up. As you say if this preferred by the Roma themselves, then it is best to use that version, especially if it harks back to its original roots. 193.201.128.141 20:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Hi Desiphral,

I was wondering, how do you say "Transylvania" in Romani? (Specifically the spelling used by the Roma living in Transylvania) Thanks! —Khoikhoi 23:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Aw man, I wanted to do it! :p Thanks. BTW, do most Roma write in Devanāgarī? —Khoikhoi 20:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, you might want to have a look at WP:NPOV#Undue weight. If the majority of Romani speakers don't use Devanagari, you should present it like that. The page actually looks good to me, but just keep that policy in mind. —Khoikhoi 21:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roma population in Transylvania

Hi Desiphral,

Since it's you who added the Romani name to the Transylvania article, you might want to provide a link about the Roma population of Transylvania here for everyone's reference, and possibly add any additional arguments as to why the Romani name is relevant enough to mention it in the lead.

KissL 08:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transcription

I think transcribing palatalized t and d as त्य etc with a dot below is fine and logical. Cygnus_hansa 12:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another question

Hey Desiphral, I just noticed the Posha article today. Have you ever heard of them? I couldn't find much about them on Google books, perhaps they are known by another name? —Khoikhoi 08:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I found some sources that might interest you:
That's the best I could find for now! —Khoikhoi 05:04, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

Hi, do you think you could add the Romani translation of the term "Muslim minority of Greece" to the article on the Muslim minority of Greece. Thanks.--Tekleni 17:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

OK -- Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 22:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks.--Tekleni 22:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling systems

Dear Desiphral, I see that you are very active on the Romani-related articles in the English Wikipedia and also in the Romani Vikipidiya, and first of all I want to congratulate you and thank you for your good work. Also, I have a few questions I think maybe you can help me with.

I would like to ask you about the background of the spelling used on the Romani Vikipidiya. I have been comparing quite a few websites in Romani and although there are several systems of spelling in use, I have not seen any that use the kind of system found on Vikipidiya. However, in the Manchester University Romani project website, there is a comparative spelling chart here which shows something close to the Vikipidiya spelling, in the column labelled "Email".

I see a few differences between this "email" spelling system and the Vikipidiya one, however, such as:

  • "Email" ch = "Vikipidiya" ch or chh

I have not seen the spelling chh anywhere else at all; do others use this or is it only found on Vikipidiya?

Another important issue seems to be the question of using y where most (all, actually) the other systems use j. The advantage of this is that it allows you to use j where the other systems variously use zh, dz, dj etc. etc. But Vikipidiya is the only place where I have seen this use of y. So again I am interested in knowing if there are others following this practice, or it is only found in Vikipidiya.

I have noticed that the first versions of Vikipidiya used consonant diacritics before being changed to the present system with none.

I am curious about all this. My questions are these, more or less: (1) what was the story of the decision about spelling on Vikipidiya: who decided this and what were the reasons? (2) how widespread is use of the same system outside of Vikipidiya: how many people Romani write this way, who are they, and how do others feel about it (how much acceptance is there)? (3) does the use of this system raise any serious problems (for example, are parts of the Romani community likely to reject things written this way, is it controversial, or will people say it isn't "real Romani" if the system isn't used by enough people)?

I hope you can help satisfy my curiosity and that you don't mind my asking you these questions, which I ask because I would like to form a clearer picture of the present-day reality of Romani and the Romani language movement. Thanks, --A R King 08:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your response on my user talk page. I have replied to you there. Alan --A R King 16:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
When you have time, I have written another question for you about Romani on my user talk page. cheers, --A R King 14:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi Desiphral...

I've just come across some of ur contribs.. Are you an actual Roma? अमेय आर्यन DaBrood© 15:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey Desi,

I'd asssumed you were a Punjabi (given ur username)! Anyways i've seen you use word Desi when referring to Indians (as understood in pre-1948 context). Well Desi is a vague, non-academic and informal term. For one there is no real feeling of kinship amongst Indians & Pakistanis abroad. Here in UK, term Desi is generally reserved for British Indians, i havent really seen any Pakistani refer to himself as Desi.

As for Roma article, i'm aware of vandalisms esp by Poles! Its under my watch list...

Lastly, its nice to come across a Rom! We hardly have that many in UK. How did you come about learning Devnagri. Is there a substantial use of Devnagri by Roms? अमेय आर्यन DaBrood© 11:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Lo' Sorry for taking this long to get back to you... I'm on a vacation actually. I can understand Roma being ashamed of being labelled 'Indian' given the amount of racism that is soo mainstream in Eastern Europe. Actually most Indians in India dont even know about Roma. I was blissfully ignorant of their Indian connection until i came across a Rom cabbbie in Budapest. Anyways in Western Europe India isnt regarded all caste, cows and kamasutra these days (see India as an emerging superpower ). Anyways my point is Desi isnt a academic term. Indian, to be frank, is most popular term for pre-1947 South Asians!

As for Punjabi i can speak just a lil' bit. I'm a native speaker of Marathi and Sindhi. Still "phral" sounds like a Punjabi word to my ears! If you need any info feel free to ask. I'll be not that active till March, but still I can help you out on Roma articles... I'm taking a break from editing Indian articles... Its getting stressful given all the stupid India-Pakistan dick-size comparision contests going around on Wikipedia! अमेय आर्यन DaBrood© 20:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Juhi Chawla.jpg)

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[edit] Lyuli and racism

Hi! As you had understood the article was first created by me. How do you thing, can a racist do it? As for Moscow, I absolutely support your idea to add some images of beggers or far-right skin-head, beating immigrants, as it frequently occurs in Moscow, but this images will be deleted by Moscovites... So, I can't understan, what is the sence of racism in this image? Begging is common for many Lyuli immigrants in Russia, and there is no racism in this fact. As for me, I always try ho support Lyulis if they beg. Hovewer I hate Moscovites. --Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 15:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

So, I'm happy that you had understood that I'm not a racist. As for me, I'm of both, Tatar and Russian heritage, the ethnic groups consisting the majority of my native city. And a interethnic tolerance is one of Kazan's features. It takes a place not only between Tatars, Russians or other local ethnic group, but also for all post-Soviet emigrees, who actually Lyuli are. So, as for the image, I hope you will check the caption to make it neutral as possible. There is no another PD images, envincing the living of Lyuli in Russia and their extremally low living standard. You may simplify the caption to Lyuli woman with child in Kazan, Russia. So, happy edits, regards, --Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 14:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Numărul romilor din România

Salut! Cred că pagina Roma people este bună cum este acum: ambele date sunt incluse (recensământul şi estimările UNDP). În altă ordine de idei, am creat trei cutiuţe la ro.wp pentru utilizatori romi: ro:Format:Utilizator etnie romă, ro:Format:Utilizator mândru rom şi ro:Format:Utilizator drepturile romilor. Acestea se pot folosi pe paginile de utilizator. Încă o întrebare: cum s-ar traduce "Decade of Roma Inclusion" în romani? Mulţumesc, Ronline ✉ 05:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:ShabanaAzmi.png

Thanks for uploading Image:ShabanaAzmi.png. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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Thanks for pointing out, let me see what is to be done. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 10:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:Ajay&Rani(ChoriChori).jpg

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