Talk:Dejima

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Hey Larry, thanks for the excellent link

Dejima also serves a fictional role as a man-made island and home to refugees in the world of Ghost in the Shell: 2nd Gig, who grow to become separatist due to elaborate circumstances.

I think this is indeed relevant (it's not just coincidence that the Ghost in the Shell writers named it "dejima") and deserves to show up on the page somewhere. Must think about how to write it. --Crypticfortune 00:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

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This is going to seem like a stupid question, but if the Dutch couldn't leave Dejima to go to Nagasaki, and the Japanese generally couldn't go to Dejima (other than prostitutes), how did the two peoples' trade?

In contrast to daimyo, the Japanese delegation traveled to Edo yearly between 1660 and 1790 and once every four years thereafter.

I suppose this is "Dutch" instead of "Japanese". David.Monniaux 11:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

The claim that the Japanese couldn't go to the island is restricted to "regular Japanese". The government still had a steady contingent of officials (who would conduct trade), staff, cooks and the like on the island. These people were all hand-picked and thoroughly checked for loyalty to the shogunate, so as not to reveal any, even the most trivial, data about the Japan of the time. In itself, the claim that only prostitutes were allowed to freely enter and leave the island seems a bit absurd. If every Japanese that had access to the island was severly checked, why would the government allow just about any prostitute from the street to enter? Would this not make all the background checks of every other Japanese on the island futile? If anybody, a prostitute would be expected to spill information that the shogunate was so desperate to conceal. No, in my opinion, the prostitutes themselves were "part of the staff", and I would imagine just as thoroughly checked for loyalty as any other Japanese on the island. So claiming that the prostitutes on the island were part of the regular populace seems like cleansing of a historical truth - that the prostitutes were probably there on official shogunate business, as much as the government officials.213.172.254.119 08:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Forgot to add what I wanted to write in the first place. Shouldn't there be an agreement as to whether Deshima or Dejima is going to be used throughout the text? I don't want to make corrections, because my knowledge of the island is limited, and I would hate to make an arbitrary decision (if I had to, I would go with Dejima, but...). Other than that, great article! 213.172.254.119 08:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I've added some details to the text, answering your questions. The prostitutes were indeed handpicked at first. But in the 18th century, the Dutch were allowed to visit Maruyama, the brothel district of Nagasaki. These visits grew sometimes in long-lasting relationships, resulting in children of mixed descent. The name "Dejima" is used in Dutch handbooks, but this is only a phonetic transcription of the Japanse name. JoJan 18:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I have personnally never heard the word being pronouced "Deshima" in Japanese, although I agree it sometimes appears that way in ancient Western source. On Goggle, "Dejima" gives about 3 times more hit than "Deshima". Using a search with the Japanese script 出島　でしま (Dejima pronounced Deshima) gives only 170 return, referring apparently to another geographical locaton. There are also a few mentions that indeed the island was called Deshima at first. On the contrary 出島　でじま (Dejima pronounced Dejima) gives 10,000 hits. Overall, it seems to me "Dejima" should be the standard name of the article, mentionning of course alternative pronounciations and transliterations. PHG 21:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

That's also my personal opinionJoJan 21:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "1690: The Dutch physician E. Kaempfer comes to Dejima."

The article on Engelbert Kaempfer says he is a German physician, not Dutch. Should this be changed? --Lost-theory 04:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

He was German but had to to pass himself off as a Dutchman, as Japan at that time was only open to protestant Dutch merchants. The same applied to Thunberg. Anyway,I've changed his nationality description into German (even if Germany, as we know today, didn't exist at that time). JoJan 09:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)