Talk:Defenestration

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[edit] Does suicide constitute defenestration?

I've seen the term used many times before in the context of throwing oneself from a window, including several examples within this very article. However, it seems a tad difficult to literally throw your own body in such a fashion. Is it proper, then, to cite defenstration for the act of jumping through said window? --AWF

I agree, I don't think the act of jumping out of a window is properly called 'defenestration'. dab (ᛏ) 11:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is the complement refenestration?

I was wondering if the word "refenestration" exists. If so, then the procedure to restart Microsoft Windows could be succinctly written as...

How to Stop and Restart Microsoft Windows 1. Defenestrate Windows 2. Refenestrate Windows

[edit] Is the computer stuff necessary?

I don't really see how it relates to defenestration, at least historically. Maybe there should be a separate article on computing defenestration...

It's a case of a word aquiring a new meaning; recording a language changing is always relevant, and (MS) Windows now rules many of our lives. I think the two on the same page is interesting. Graldensblud 18:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Got Rid of Cleanup

I think it's safe to say this page has been sufficiently cleaned up...

[edit] Re-Ordered movies

They are in chronological order now. Childsplay (1988) was at the bottom before

[edit] Pop Culture

These lists are entirely unecessary to this article. It doesn't even need mentioning that people are thrown out of windows in films. An anonymous user readded these; they're welcome to discuss why they think they should be included, otherwise I'll keep removing them.

--Whamilton42 18:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Likewise, you're welcome to discuss why you think they should be removed, otherwise, people will keep adding them.
They're fun.
It goes without saying that people are thrown out of windows, period. That's no reason to exclude the Defenestrations of Prague, and it's no reason to exclude the Defenestrations of Die Hard.
Why are you just removing films? Why not the other forms of popular culture, such as comics and television? And while you're removing the most memorable and notable defenestrations from the defenestration article, why not go the whole hog and remove all that boring historical stuff, too? TheMadBaron 03:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
I left a few comic and television examples as I thought from their wording they might be notable. For example, the.. "In the "Art Attack" episode of Dark Angel, Mr. Develia orders one of his men to defenestrate a man who failed to deliver his Norman Rockwell painting." I thought may be perhaps be a literal order to "defenestrate that man!" which would merit inclusion. Likewise, the comic-hero Defenestrator is relevant. The other film and television references you've reinserted are entirely spurious - just what purpose does listing every instance in popular culture of people being thrown out of windows achieve? The reader knows that it happens, they don't need a list. Like you said, it goes without saying that people are thrown out of windows.
The historical examples are of course valid; the Defenestrations of Prague are (in)famous and probably how most people come across the word. The trouble with including so much popular culture is that all the interesting information gets lost, like the actual Defenestration related mentions in the Music and Comic sections.
Heh, I just checked your userpage. Call yourself a deletionist! :p
--Whamilton42 16:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I see your point, but it seems to me that whether the word "defenestrate" is actually used in these song/TV shows/movies is wholly irrelevant, because this is an article about the act of defenestration, not the word "defenestrate". I doubt very much that anybody actually used that word while they were lobbing the good Bishop of Lisbon to his doom. The word is commonly used in reference to the Defenestrations of Prague, but that's the only example that carries any greater academic weight than anything else in the article. The rest is just filler.

I'm not sure I'd agree that the pop culture lists are entirely unecessary to this article, any more than the rest of the content is entirely unecessary to this article. Since the whole article consists of defenestration trivia, I think it's more true to say that the article itself is entirely unecessary to Wikipedia. We could just redirect to Defenestrations of Prague, and be done with it, with no great loss.

I would strongly oppose this, of course.

The real reason I want all this stuff here (for now), to be honest, is that I love the fact that Wikipedia has an article about defenestration at all - like Pizza delivery (another wonderfully pointless article with an unbelievably pointless popular culture section), it's exactly the kind of thing that Wikipedia can do which the Encyclopædia Britannica can't (because Wikipedia is not paper), and which Wikipedia should do, not because it's necessary, but just because it can....

....But the sad truth of the matter is that without an extensive popular culture section, I don't think there's very much that can be said about defenestration without resorting to trivia. :(

I'd love to be proven wrong, and I'll be the first to advocate removing the bulk of the pop culture list in that event.

The purpose achieved by listing instances in popular culture of people being thrown out of windows is, admittedly, largely one of entertainment, which might not be seem to be a very noble purpose in an encyclopædia, but it has many precedents in Wikipedia (see, for example, List of energy blades, which grew from Light saber#Lightsaber like devices in other contexts, where the article about Light Sabers is, itself, utterly trivial). I'm not suggesting that every instance of defenestration in the movies should be listed, but I'm hoping that the list will grow to include a lot of meaningful content before it reaches the point where it requires trimming (and I don't think we're there yet). After all, some defenestrations must surely be counted amongst the most memorable moments of cinema history. I think that's a lot more interesting to many people than the historical defenestrations (a couple of which might well be equally fictitious). I also think there's more to be said on that subject alone.... the hero jumping through a plate glass window and carrying on, undaunted, in pursuit of the villain is a classic cliché, and really very silly, if you consider that he'd actually suffer severe lacerations and require immediate hospital treatment, if he didn't bleed to death within seconds. The fact that we find the idea of throwing people out of windows so compelling may say more about us than the fact that we've been known, from time to time, to actually do it.

Anyway, that's what I think.

And yes, I am a deletionist. If you don't believe me, go to AfD and check my voting record. :) TheMadBaron 22:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The "popular culture" section is slightly iffy, but quite amusing. Thats probably not very good criteria, but still. The popular children's song "Threw It Out the Window" inserts incongruous themes of defenestration into existing nursery rhymes. - Possibly one of the best sentences on wikipedia. -- jeffthejiff 15:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Why is it not 'efenestrated'?

It suddenly struck me to wonder why it's not 'e-fenestrated', since 'e-' means 'out of' so far as I recall, and it seems it should be 'e-fenestrated' if it's 'thrown through the window'. The only reason I could think of (with my highly accurate pop-etymology qualifications) for it being 'de-fenestrated', is that 'falling *from* windows' was probably quite common back in Rome when windows were not typically furnished with glass - you're having a nice time reading your scroll in the sunshine, when you abruptly find yourself on the floor, defenestrated. SleekWeasel 15:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I doubt the term dates to classical Latin; it is more likely an erudite Renaissance coinage. dab (ᛏ) 11:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non-literal connotations

Is this word, in English, never used with symbolic or allegorical meanings, such as "to expel" or "to kick out"? I believe that in other languages it is. For example, I remember reading an article on a Romance language newspaper that said that "Roger Waters was defenestrated from Pink Floyd by the other members", or something like that. --Cotoco 04:47, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

  • I've never heard it used like that, and I don't think such usage could be correct. Pink Floyd is not a room. TheMadBaron 03:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I _do_ think it is used that way. Just a quick google search conjures up a quite a few examples, especially of "political defenestration", where director, a president or government is ousted from power, not by literally throwing them out the window. The Caribbean Voice (http://www.caribvoice.org/) writes in an editorial "The preordained defenestration of Dr Jagan and his government while maintaining an official aura of propriety was a sickening exercise in cynicism.", in an interview about US intervention in Guatemala, a person says "The defenestration of Arbenz was necessary, regardless of what the tactical consequences might have been.", an article of the Guardian (UK) writes "The defenestration of Tony Blair will leave lasting bitterness in the Labour party, with many allies of the prime minister left hoping for a Tory victory." Especially if you google for "political defenestration" you can find enough references to expand the Wikipedia article. I would not be surprised if this is the main use of the word today. D6jvb 12:05, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Throwing Somone OR "Something" out a window???

Since when did defenestration apply to inanimate objects? This is news to me. I know some dictionaries say the act can be done to things, but is it ever used this way? In fact, is the word ever used at all, except as a humorous novelty? I'm tempted to remove the "or something," because it doesn't sit right with me.....--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 15:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Defenestration has always been applicable to inanimate objects, dictionaries concur, and the word is sometimes used in this way, albeit as a humorous novelty. Please leave it as it is. TheMadBaron 07:10, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fatal?

"Defenestration is often fatal."-- It makes sense for the historical cases, but wouldn't that depend on how high up the window is, what lies below the window, if the window is open or closed etc.?--Spyderchan 02:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

And indeed the presence of gravity, relative buoyancy of the living thing in the atmosphere, the mortality of the subject in question, etc. Defenestration is a popular way for dispatching carrier pidgeons, and they survive. (Defenestrate a corpse and it's hardly fatal!) Graldensblud 21:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Departed

In the departed Queenan was thrown off the top of the building. Not through a window.

[edit] Chet Baker

Due to the dubious circumstances of Chet Baker death, of which the point of origin and impact being of the few certainties, I think he may warrant mention. 72.24.164.127 06:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Involuntary self-defenestration: Izzy the Push

The novelist William S. Burroughs mentioned "defenestration syndrome" in the Paris Review interview: The uncontrollable (and very rare) compulsion to throw oneself out a window, especially the window of a skyscraper. His character "Izzy the Push" suffers from this disorder.

It may be a subtype of Alien Hand Syndrome, and Burroughs might not be using the correct term.

I can't find a source, but I think it'd be an interesting addition to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.62.215.11 (talk) 14:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Removing the trivia section

I removed the "in popular culture" trivia section as Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. It is not of encyclopedic value to list every single time some cartoon character throws something out the window. Krimpet (talk/review) 02:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Cylons, Defenestrated?

Could one say that the act of 'throwing them out the airlock' in the modern Battlestar Galactica could constitute as defenestration?

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