Talk:Death grunt
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[edit] Added Mark Jansen
Mark Jansen is indeed a key death grunt/scream vocalist, I added him.
[edit] Move
No sources have shown "death grunt" to be the most common term for this vocal style, so, for now, this page should be titled "growled vocals." Jon138 21:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
- Based on what criteria is growled vocals the best term - I didn't see any discussion reaching consensus? All articles link to death grunt anyway. try starting up some discussion first before taking such drastic measures. Spearhead 21:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] And,....George "Corpsegrinder" Fisher of Cannibal Corpse?
Corpsegrinder (Actually lead vocal in Cannibal Corpse) can be considered as an example of very extreme death grunt?,...I think that his voice is very brutal,...Thanks for your attention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dcamposurquiza (talk • contribs) 14:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
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- No...there are thousands of people using the death grunt. The short list on this page is supposed to only contain some vocalists that played a part in it's development. Isilioth 11:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New list of artists
It seems unproductive to have a list of key vocalists and yet have no separate list of other people that also use this style in their music. At the moment, these names are added to the existing list and almost immediately removed – a separate list would give these names a home, without being overly trivial. I imagine that such a list might be quite long and eventually require a separate article, but not so long as to be completely useless. The only argument against another list that I can think of is that there may be a few artists who only border-line on death vocals. I suggest that from this point on, rather than removing anonymous entries they should instead be added to a new list (if appropriate). — Lee J Haywood 21:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
- Go ahead - I proposed that long time ago, but no one seems to be interested in doing it, altho I'm not sure a list is necessary. Maybe a category would be more suitable. Anyway the list would be long, including all singers of death metal and grindcore bands as well as lots of gothic metal, doom metal and probably other singers. Spearhead 21:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
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- A category is a sensible alternative, but it would suffer from giving a long list of people without the names of the groups that they belong to. Now that I think about it, a few people will have used these vocals in several groups – but then lists can handle that too, see for example List of female television actors. Thanks. — Lee J Haywood 22:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Looking through some of the discussions above, I'm forced to recognise that I'm not familiar with enough artists to make such a list by myself. I had hoped to use the edit logs to gather together other contributions, but the repeated renaming of the article seems to have truncated its history. Also, I can see now that such a list would be almost as difficult to keep clean as the list of 'key' vocalists – as there would be argument over who should truly be on it and who doesn't count... Personally, I'd be more interested in a list of bands than people, but that seems out of touch with this article. — Lee J Haywood 11:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Added Ross Dolan. Again. Undone. Again.
Someone who thinks he or she knows everything there is to know about death metal keeps deleting Ross Dolan (Immolation) from the list using revisions. Please don't. The man has a very distinct and easily recognizable voice and is also one of the very few vocalists who can pronounce his lyrics clearly while utilizing a very deep growl. He's been an influence for well over a decade now. I think that removing him and at the same time keeping guys from fringe bands like Mourning Beloveth on the list isn't very prudent and subjective to the extreme. On the other hand, if you want to be anal about control: go ahead. It isn't that important. Harachte 00:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
- Is he a "Vocalists essential to the development of the growl"? "a very distinct and easily recognizable voice" isn't a good reason. "is also one of the very few vocalists who can pronounce his lyrics clearly while utilizing a very deep growl" is also not true - there are several examples, such as Dave Ingram Karl Willetts, Nick Holmes and POV. "He's been an influence" is debatable. If I think of Immolation, I think more of the guitars and drums, not the vocals that are only in a reach of 2.5 notes or so. "He is also notable for having extremely long hair" (from Ross Dolan is also a silly statement to add. Spearhead 15:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Singers
If anyone wants they can use this template {{User Metal Singer}} on their user page... it looks something like this:
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This user growls in a heavy metal band. |  |
. Asics talk Editor review! 18:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Joe Wolfe, Blue Jensen and Nikfuk
I believe that Joe Wolfe of Heinous Killings, ex- Clean Flesh, Erotic Incisions, should be added to the list of pioneers of the death grunt. He has proven himself as to having the lowest guttural vocals with his most recent release, Hung with Barbwire by Heinous Killings. Along with Joe Wolfe, I think that Blue Jensen of Guttural Secrete should be added for having very unique, low, gurgle vocals, and having a rapid rate of delivery. Nikfuk, the vocalist of Sikfuk, should too be added most notably for his lack of lyrics. It has been said, that Nikfuk does not write his lyrics down but rather writes down vocal patterns for performance and recording purposes.
The following are websites that have recordings of the musicians:
Blue Jensen - http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=7015555 Joe Wolfe - http://www.myspace.com/heinouskillings Nikfuk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn7TUM-Hx5k
These three very influential vocalists should be added to the list of death metal grunters. They are the sound of the new wave of death metal. Thank you for taking the time to read my claim and more importantly listen to the links i have provided, and hopefully make the changes to the list. 68.74.123.77 06:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC) a helpful metalhead
Also Wayne Knupp of Devourment should be added to the list. Though Knupp's work was predominatly in the mid-1990s, he was one of the first to use ultra low guttural vocals. His tone has become the benchmark for brutal death metal vocals, since his leaving Devourment.
[edit] Death growls vs. death grunts yet again
I really don't see why this article is titled death grunt when most people know the vocal style as growling. I see people objecting to the use of the term death grunt in the discussions, people use growling in the discussions, regardless of the title of the page, and in most magazines, newspapers, e-zines etc. growling is by far the most commonly used term.
I saw google results was mentioned in a discussion about the topic, but to get somewhat valid results you have to know how to search. Here's some results from google, using quotation marks to make sure the words are used in the right context, and putting a minus sign in front of "wikipedia" and "answers.com" to try to minimize any biased search results caused by this very article. It's not entirely unbiased, as there are other web sites wich have wikipedia articles on them, but it nevertheless gives a reasonable picture of which of the two terms are the most commonly used:
"death growl" -wikipedia -answers.com : 10.600 results "death grunt" -wikipedia -answers.com : 850 results
"death metal" growling -wikipedia -answers.com :186.000 "death metal" grunting -wikipedia -answers.com : 49.900
"death metal growling" -wikipedia -answers.com : 3.110 "death metal grunting" -wikipedia -answers.com : 440
"death metal" growl -wikipedia -answers.com :111.000 "death metal" grunt -wikipedia -answers.com : 34.900
"death metal vocals" growl -wikipedia -answers.com: 14.900 "death metal vocals" grunt -wikipedia -answers.com : 946
And finally, the meaning of the words themselves gives quite different associations to the vocal style. Growling is defined by dictionary.com as: "To utter a deep guttural sound of anger or hostility", and by the American heritage dictionary as: "The low, guttural, menacing sound made by an animal". Right in the vein of the aggressive nature of death metal. Grunting, on the other hand, is defined as "to utter a deep guttural sound, as a hog does" Pigs wallowing in the dirt is not what first comes to my mind when I listen to death metal.
I think the whole idea of wikipedia is undermined if one or two persons are governing the titles, what terms to use and the content of the articles. I haven't seen any good arguments to why this article should be titled death grunt, other than "I have always known it as death grunts" wich is irrelevant and purely anecdotal. But to follow that argument I will say that I have always known it as death growls, and I heard it back in 1908, so I am right and you are not. The second argument was: "why change it anyway... every thing seems to link here and the most dominant terms are mention in the first line". And that was the end of discussion. In other words, the message was "yeah, maybe it's wrong, but why change it? If we spread the disinformation to as many people as possible, for a long enough time, someday it will become truth" Which is commonly known as propaganda. I'm sorry, i got a bit carried away there, but I hope you get my drift. I hope someone change the title of the article, or that there at least will be a decent discussion without "I heard" or "I have always" in it. --Anabiose 00:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
