Talk:Davy Crockett
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Was David Crockett buried at the Alamo? I ask that Question 'cause I read something at findagrave that his remains are entombed within the Alamo not creamated or scatted at sea.So what's true? Entombed or scatted at sea?thanks.
- Crockett's body , along with the other 180-250 combatants inside the Alamo, were taken outside the Alamo and burned. Almost a year later, on 25 February 1837, Captain Juan Sequín and his calvary company, rode into San Antonio and scooped up some of the ashes. He had a wooden coffin built and buried the ashes where he found them. A marble and concrete casket today resides inside the San Fernando Cathedral supposedly containing the mixed ashes of some of the fallen men from the Alamo.~TLincoln
[edit] Something's missing...
Where's the info about all the legendary stuff he supposedly did? What about his frontier life?
The Daniel Boone article states that Boone did not wear a coon skin cap, while this article states that he does. Doesn't seem to be on topic for Davy Crockett in any event.
How about the Davey Crockett haircut! It's true!
Um...1872 to 1884 isn't exactly 24 years last time I checked...
So he just died while fighting...why does that make him any more notable than all the other soldiers? Doesn't seem so legendary to me, I expected something extraordinary.
- Crockett and Bowie had already made names for themselves before arriving at the Alamo. Travis was a relative unknown at the time in Texas History. Together, all three are now legends within Texas History. Also, Crockett's death is cause for serious debate among scholars.~TLincoln
He was actually executed under orders from Santa Anna following the battle. A ruthless bastard, I find it amusing General Sam Houston allowed him to live--I sure hope he remained embarrassed over that for the rest of his life. A reputed rapist and murderer (He allowed his men to do so), I'll bet he's crying in Hell for all eternity.
- Houston allowed Santa Anna to live because he knew only Santa Anna could stop the Mexican army. Houston knew there were close to 5,000 Mexican troops still in the field and the Texan military was in poor shape. Santa Anna's order for all Mexican troops to pull back to the Rio Grande was a schrewd political and military move on Houston's part.~TLincoln
You watched the movie, you cant say for certain that he was "actually executed under orders from Santa Anna" when it is all speculation. I love how the movie tries to demolish the legend that is davy crockett...hollywood always trys to defile everything that is great and American.
- The movie on purpose wanted to show the human side of the main characters. Legends and actual fact often become tightly twisted together.~TLincoln
The article does need a lot of work. On a minor matter, Crockett's son served as US Congressman from Tennessee (a Whig like his dad) from 1837 to 1841, not 1843 (also the account could be taken to imply that he served from Texas, which would have been impossible since Texas was not part of the US until after the 1844 election).
== ugh == --68.193.163.234 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC) divya
He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman.He killed 108 bears between two sessions of legislature while a Congressman. [cough] evil —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.193.163.234 (talk • contribs).
- Well, yes, but then things really were different back then. Even the naturalist John James Audubon went around killing birds, etc., left and right. -- Mwanner | Talk 23:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
dont be stupid...you live in the 2000s...you are weak, davy crockett lived in a time where men were men so you will never understand hunting for survival since you have everything you need at your mcdonalds, put down the hoagie and open your eyes —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.216.1.4 (talk • contribs).
But he did it for no reason whatsoever! He just left them there to rot. only vultures could maake use of them, duh! Natives, on the other hand, actually used every part of the animal. Don't even mention Mcdonalds. I am a vegetarian animal lover, but do not mistake me for a PETA official who thinks it is kinder to bake the chicken, not fry it. (they are idiots). Also, people during that time, when riding in trains, used to shoot buffalo from the windows, again leaving them to rot. Someone back me up here! (please, of course)-- 68.193.163.234 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC) divya
- The mass shootings/killings of buffalo, via trains, occurred from the late 1860s till the 1880s and were shot by wealthy easterners who wanted to 'go west for excitment'. They were only interested in the buffalos' hides. The transcontinental railroad wasn't completed till 1869. Correct statement, wrong decade. ~TLincoln
- It really wasn't for no reason-- bears killed livestock (and sometimes people). It certainly made more sense than the slaughter of the buffalo did. -- Mwanner | Talk 21:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
- The killing of animals wasn't a matter of concern at all in the 19th century, neither was soil conservation of any kind. The people of that time felt it all was an unexhaustable supply.~TLincoln
they only kill humans if provoked- and injuring them provoked them, u idiot.everyone knows that. Okay, your vegetarian animal lover, how about you travel to the middle of Alaska and try to befriend the bears there? It's easy for you to be an animal lover when you aren't out in the woods trying to survive.
I would use them to survive. Seriously i'm not an idiot--- that much according to my friends.--Divya da animal lvr 21:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] folk hero my foot
This article says he was a folk hero, that should mean that he did something that won the hearts of all of his townspeople, but what did he do???
- Crockett was a proponent of the 'common man' of the day while in office. He often championed Indian rights bills in congress.~TLincoln
[edit] Cattle Drive
It says in my book here that "In 1798, David left to work as a hired hand on a 300-mile cattle drive." Is this true?
- In 1798 Jacob Siler was passing by the Crockett tavern in Tennessee and was driving a herd of cattle to Rockbridge, Virginia, about 225 northeast. David's dad, John, hired out David to Mr. Siler for the trip.~TLincoln
The Complete Idiot's Guide to The Old West by Mike Flanagan copyright ???
[edit] Accuracy dispute
The article is flagged as being the subject of an accuracy dispute. What is disputed?
[edit] Removing Ancient ACCURACY template
Duplcate of note on: User talk:Ashibaka#I should bill you for the time
Hi! Poor Summary — Many of us would appreciate a comment like "Applied ACCURACY Template because...". We'd appreciate it even more if you annote the talk:Davy Crockett with a prominent section title and notes as is implied by the template: "See Talk..." For example a heading like the below would be in order:
[edit] Applying CLEAN Template 27 Apr 06
Because ...
- this
- that
- and more importantly...
- I hope you've been checking back on any such tagged articles... the rest of us shouldn't have to spend our limited wikiTime trying to trace such unthoughtful behaviour, wouldn't you agree?
- In sum, you owe me for nearly a half-hours effort. My billing rate is fairly high, so I'll give you a pass this time. Do be more considerate going forward. You have a responsibility to the other volunteers here do so, wouldn't you agree?
I'm removing the Template now. If you don't like it, put it back with such documented reasons if you are too lazy or disinterested in cleaning up the article yourself. Best regards, FrankB 18:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Need a source
We need a source for the charge that Davy Crockett might have tried to flee. I will remove that sentence in 24hrs without a credible source for this; as it conflicts with the historical record and generally accepted history. --Northmeister 18:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Good work Brian, on sourcing. Interesting facts. --Northmeister 14:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Some Texans slipped over the walls during the battle within the mission fort. Santa Anna had placed calvary, Gen. Ramírez y Sesma, outside to patrol the Béxar-Goliad road and in case of Texan reinforcements or escape. Mexican lancers surrounded the fort. Source: Santa Anna Order, March 5, 1836 in Jenkins, ed.,Papers IV, 518-519./Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution by Stephen L. Hardin-pp 133,pp138,pp148. All accounts of Crockett's death place him within the Alamo compound.~TLincoln
Exactly, use the time stamp for your signature when editing. --Northmeister 02:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removing material
TLincoln- What source are you using to remove the material from the lead paragraph? --Northmeister 02:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- "King of the Wild Frontier" is a 20th century, Walt Disney, commercially created label. It has no historical bearing on the article and you will not find that tag in any Texas History books. In addition, I have been researching Texas History for over 20 years and I believe in extreme accuracy when dealing with this topic. All true Texas Historians know that Crockett did not like being called Davy, but David. Also, I stand by my research in the case of David Crockett's son John W., and his time in congress. It should be reinstated into the article in my POV. Thank you. Tlincoln 02:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
-
- Regardless, he is popularly known as "King of the Wild Frontier" as it states and that should stay. We are dealing with the man and the Americana of the man as well. For example he may not have liked th e name "Davy" has Roosevelt did not like the name "Teddy" but history and popular American culture use those terms, they should stay. Keep that and add your observations about John W. if they have sources for us to check. --Northmeister 05:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
-
- Well, I say it stays. So who wins? We could go back and fourth forever, but, it doesn't really matter. If something is removed for being so silly, what's to stop someone from putting it back only because they like it? Like the Crockett part about his funeral! That is pure nonsense. I could easily type " A parade of Mexican clowns came in and danced around the fire", and it would stay. I give up on this site trying to educate people. I am a Texas History teacher, have been to the Alamo many times and I know my facts. Historical garbage will only make my job a little harder in correcting misinformation to our students. This nation's founding fathers were correct in calling the mass of people to dumb to govern themselves. I will not attempt to correct any further historical mistakes on Wikipedia. You're free to write anything you want, I will not respond nor read any commments. Have a nice day and good luck.Tlincoln 18:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks Northmeister for getting back with me, that was very nice of you. Let's work together to make this article even better and make the "King of the Wild Frontier" happy. (Tlincoln 15:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC))
[edit] Picture
Shouldnt we find a picture with coonskin cap on? Davy always wore it and its surely how he would like to be remembered.
Ice Cold 18:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] West Point
Anyone care to add a word or two about Crockett's opposition to the US Military Academy? Somewhere I have read that he opposed it as elitist.
[edit] Crocket's Funeral conflict
First and second (and last) paragraph on this item contradict themselves. It may be because it is not entirely well written. Whereas the second paragraph gives its statements as facts, the first one gives "unconfirmed" renditions over the same issues. But if the second one is definitive, then the first one doesn't make sense. Perhaps it has to be rephrased saying that it is "officially" believed that he was taken to... and then give the other unconfirmed rumours. Or else, I don't understand the section.--200.55.116.210 02:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)Nahuel
- Anyone? --Awiseman 16:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] French ancestry
Somebody removed the bit about his French ancestry. There is tons of proof on the internet, such as abook by his direct descendent [1], this list of his descendents [2], and this page from the U of Wisc. about Wisconsin's French heritage. [3]. Please don't remove something and say there's no evidence if you haven't bothered to look. --Awiseman 16:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] This alleged "Crockett speech" should be removed...
This bit about Crockett being a "staunch opponent" is speculation based on nothing more than a book of fiction, a "dime novel" which included this alleged speech: "Not Yours To Give". It should have more than a link to website by Ron Paul as a source, since his only source is this author of Dime novels. I will be removing this entire bit in one week unless someone can come up with more than a dime novel, or Ron Paul, as a source. It's not the first time some "politician" has done this.
There is the case of Alexander Tytler: http://lorencollins.net/tytler.html
(A big favorite of right wing propagandists and characters like Paul and his ilk).
There is the case of David Barton's false quotes being read into the congressional record:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/founding.htm#MYTHING
(The Christianists love that.)
It's embarassing to see this kind of shoddy nonsense and propaganda being inserted into Wiki articles as factual information. It's like using a comic book as a source and citation. Ridiculous, but then so is Ron Paul. One week and it's history.
Links about Crockett and this dime novel author who never even met the man:
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/CC/fcr24.html
http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/projects/price/acrocket.htm
http://www.buriedantiques.com/19th_century_authors/edward_sylvester_ellis.htm
http://www.niulib.niu.edu/badndp/ellis_edward.html
"Crockett was a staunch opponent of wasteful government spending. In his speech entitled "Not Yours to Give" [2], he was critical of his Congressional colleagues who were willing to spend taxpayer dollars to help a widow of a U.S. Navy man who had lived beyond his naval service, but would not contribute their own salary for a week to the cause. He described the spending as "unconstitutional" and the once popular proposal died in the Congress largely as a result of his speech:
“ Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him. Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."
Wikkid Won 09:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I have found one Crockett speech. I'm sure there are others, but after reading this one, I am even more convinced this alleged speech is more fiction than fact. Crockett was illiterate, in the sense that he had no formal education. This exemplar of an actual speech is hardly what I would call great oratory. Compare the two. You'll see what I mean.
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hlaw:1:./temp/~ammem_d69p::
Crockett did not even learn how to write English until later in life. His book was written with the aid of a man with a formal education. If the source for any of this came from Crockett's book, I would not quibble with it. But it does not. It is from the 1884 Dime novel by Ellis.
People are more than welcome to search for this alleged speech. You will be searching through the Register of Debates.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwrd.html
If you find it. Put it back.
• I say it should stay...
-
- People, please sign your user signature. Here is a link to the entire speech, plus at the bottom is another link which discusses the authenticity of the quote. To lump in Ron Paul and others with David Barton is ridiculous. Ever consider that Rep. Paul is simply mistaken? That perhaps he isn't even aware a longer version exists? --Sparkhurst 19:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
After looking around a little, I noticed a few things. For one, "Until the middle eighteen eighties Ellis wrote, primarily, works of fiction. After that time, he turned to writing accounts of historical events, mostly for adults." [4] This article previously said The Life of David Crockett was written in 1884, in the time period when he transitioned to more serious works. To determine whether this is a dime novel or not, one would have to read the book. Failing that, at the very least someone could provide sourcing proving this Not Yours To Give story is fantasy. Also, since the link was changed from Ron Paul's website to the full version at Constitution.org, to include Paul's name is unnecessary. --207.69.138.134 20:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Uh, which is it?
The only survivors on the Texan side were one woman, one slave, and one child, but they did not provide an eye witness account.
or
Susanna Dickinson, the wife of an officer, said that Crockett died in the assault and that she saw Crockett's body between the long barracks and the chapel, and Travis' slave Joe said that he also saw Crockett lying dead with the bodies of slain Mexican soldiers around him.
This is from the "Death" section. It starts out saying their were no eyewitness accounts, then in the last paragraph mentions that the woman and the slave did witness his dead body. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shawndoc (talk • contribs) 01:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
I think the first statement means they did not witness his exact moment of death; the seconds says they later "saw" his body. "Witness" is a poor choice of word to use instead of "saw." Sir Rhosis 03:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] David De Crocketagne
I can find no evidence that David Crockett was born David De Crocketagne. De Crocketagne appears to have been an older family name. This information has been copied in many wikis. Any way to undo the damage?
edit in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Davy_Crockett&diff=12668743&oldid=12668410
--71.231.203.169 04:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
- I found a genealogy page that says his ancestors had that name, but it appears he didn't. I changed it --AW 15:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
