Talk:David Lane

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This article is part of WikiProject Fascism, an attempt to better organize and unify articles relating to the fascist ideology, its impact on history and present-day organizations closely linked to both of these (ideology and history). See project page, and discussion.

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[edit] Rant

He is a believer of the NORTH MANS GODS, which are the Gods of the ancient VIKINGS. The leader of these Gods is OTHINN (WODAN).David Lane was born in a town in Iowa called Woden. They are really keeping him locked up for LIFE because there is a "PROPHECY" written long before he was born and it came true. His PYRAMID Number Code equals 666(the mark of the MAN not the Beast).Christians are the people who destroyed the NORTHMANS GODS and the NORTH MAN.They took our OTHINN SPEAKERS and basically gave them two optians: Be one of our speakers or die.The HIGH GODS made our DESTINY. If you take away our destiny and trie to manipulate, all I can say is make your own mistake.David lane is not what they say he is but what the GODS made him. But NON-SURVIVALISTS are RUINING.He wrote the 14 words how others could understand. The true 14 words I belive are WE MUST SECURE THE EXISTANCE OF OUR GODS AND A FUTURE FOR OTHINNS CHILDREN. I believe the 88 is HAIL HIGHERS. We are what we are and thats all that we are.The real ones arent skin heads,they just say they are because they know that its just the best form of survival.I dont ask others to follok where I go, Im headed in one direction so make your own mistake. You others must also have a destiny. Maybe you can start speakin the truth for once.Do not blame WIKKIPEDIA.org for what I wrote. Even though what I wrote is nothing but TRUTH. If you want to read about David Lane in his words go to PYRAMIDPROPHECY.net. (anon)


Normally, this crap should be deleted, but in this case, we should leave it up. It's just that stupid.

Oh, come on. As if you don't believe that the OTHINNWPSODI SPEAKERS were KILLED by CHRISTIANS and THE White MAN is IN danger UNLESS he CAN secure A future FOR White/Othinn's CHILDREN. I thought that was universal knowledge.

he got a life sentence for "violating civil right"? what's that about

[edit] Terrorism

Can someone explain why this article is categorized under terrorism since it does not appear that Mr. Lane was convicted of terrorism? Perhaps the article is just not clear about this, but how does "racketeering, conspiracy and violating the civil rights of radio talk show host Alan Berg" equal terrorism? What specific terrorist acts was Lane involved in or convicted of? If there is information on this can someone add links or better references than what we have please-- JJay 19:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Lane was involved with "the most violent and notorious domestic terrorist group of the 1980s"[1] according to the Nizkor Project as well as the ADL. The book The Silent Brotherhood listed in the references basically details their attempt at overthrowing the US government, and after they were all convicted, they are still seen as extremely dangerous, hence Lane's incarceration at Supermax. Unfortunately, fans of The Order (group) have turned that entry into pure fancruft, so it is not really representative of the group at the moment. I guess it is terminology semantics: Is someone a terrorist if they don't produce a high body count before they are caught by law enforcement? Obviously, the government thinks so. WeniWidiWiki 20:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

  • The ADL link does not support your argument. While it calls the Order a terrorist group twice in passing, it does not provide any proof. As for the Nizkor Project, that looks to be a blog and as such is not a valid source. I have no doubt that I could find blogs that call Mr. Lane a patriot; it is not on such proof that I would try to classify him as one. My concern is that we should not use these types of labels without serious proof such as a criminal conviction or being placed on a terrorist watchlist. That goes for the article text and the categories. If you look at our Yasser Arafat article, you will see that the Terrorist category is not applied. While your point about body counts is well taken, intent does not equal crime or conviction and we should not let our mindsets influence the :way we treat the subjects of articles here. Semantics matters and should always be borne in mind by us-- JJay 22:12, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Definition of Domestic Terrorism as per US Code Title 18, 2331(5) Also in the text of the Patriot Act (Link goes to PDF)

(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
 (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any          
 State;
 (B) appear to be intended—
   (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
  (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
 (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
 (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

Nizkor is not a blog, and under current US legal statutes Lane is a domestic terrorist. There are copious sources which say Lane is a terrorist and identifies the Order as a terrorist group. Please list your sources which state that David Lane is not a terrorist, or even anecdotal evidence which could indicate that his actions did not fit the criteria of terrorist, as commonly used.

References:

  • Gardell, Matthias (2003). Gods of the Blood: The Pagan Revival and White Separatism. Duke University Press. ISBN 0822330717.
Gardell explains the motivations and terrorist actions of David Lane and the Order to great length Ch.5, pp.191-204
"Matthews and Lane along with eight others started what, in essence, was a terrorist group. He called it "Bruder Schweigen" (the Silent Brotherhood), which came to be known nationally as "The Order."
"But it was his role as a founding member of the terrorist organization The Order that won him notoriety — as well as prison sentences totaling 190 years on racketeering charges and civil rights violations, the latter stemming from the 1984 murder of Denver talk radio host Alan Berg."
"The Order was the most violent and notorious domestic terrorist group of the 1980s"

WeniWidiWiki 01:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Look, I'm not going to waste my time telling you that the sites you are quoting from could easily be viewed as partisan and could just as easily be offset from quotes from equally partisan websites. Furthermore, your quoting a law and telling me that Mr. Lane's actions fit the definition of the law is irrelevant as you know. It would have been nice if you had pointed me to a page that said that Mr. Lane had been convicted for terrorism or charged with terrorism. It would have been nice to provide a link to a news source that called him a terrorist. Apparently being a rascist serving a long prison sentence for Berg's murder is not enough and semantics would seem to matter a great deal for you. With that in mind, good luck working on the article. -- JJay 01:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation?

I really don't think that this particular man deserves his own David Lane article when there are clearly other notable David Lanes in the world. I propose that thsi should be turned into a dab page. Disagree? Agree? Hbdragon88 01:03, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

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