Talk:Dark elf
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[edit] Swart Elves or Black Elves?
"In Norse mythology, the Svartalfar or the black elves (but literally "swart elves")" In modern scandinavian languages, "svart" means black, "swart" is the true cognate, but I would think black would be a better translation. (Unless someone would correct me with usages from old norse. I only know the modern scandinavian languages, such as swedish, dansih and norwegian.)
- Actually, the English word "swart" is archaic and no longer in use. Like many archaic words, its definition depended on region and time period. Originally it likely meant the same thing as the Norse word "svart" (alternately transliterated as "swart"), so "swart elves" is an accurate literal translation. The modern word "swarthy", on the other hand, generally refers to a very dark brown rather than black. So either "black elf" or "swart elf" would be an accurate translation of "swartaelf", however "swarthy elf" would not. Also note that "swart" could mean the same thing as the modern word "swarthy" in some instances while it strictly meant "black" in others.
- Really, this is an etymology vs. usage issue. Generally, when people speak of "literal" meanings, they're speaking of etymological meanings rather than slang -- so I would think "swart elves" (since alternate uses of "swart" whence we derive the word "swarthy" essentially began as slang) would be the most accurate literal translation while "black elf" would better reflect the common speech meaning. --Corvun 23:06, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Middle-Earth
In the Silmarillion it explains that one of the elves lives in a small forest seperate from the others, and the trees hardly let light through. The elf who lived here was called a dark elf due to living in the shade, not due to skin color. I don't have the book on hand...
- I wouldn't doubt it. The same is true in Norse mythology. In Norse myth, Dark Elves avoid sunlight, while Black Elves live completely underground. Their names have nothing to do with either their character or appearance. It just so happens that light-avoiding creatures make the best monsters, is all. --Corvun 05:48, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
dark elves can be seen as the counterparts of the blonde elves, that being, dark elves lower then low elves, as blonde elves are higher then high elves. maybe this paralel should have a sentence in the article?--Lygophile 05:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- If you mean that being Cala- or Moriquendi has to do with hair color, or that Elves of one hair color are "higher", then you are mistaken. The distinction between Calaquendi (High/Light Elves) and Moriquendi (Dark Elves) has nothing to do with hair color. The Vanyar are High Elves and are typically blond. But the Noldor are High Elves also, but have black hair. 217.95.252.25 23:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
- as i have read, blonde elves arent just high elves, there a type of high elves that are above all other high elves. they own the sercret to immortality or something. but i dont recall where iv read that. im not familiar with cala/moriquendi.--Lygophile 00:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Trow/Drow/Trowe
The Orkneys and Shetlands have a more Nordic than Gaelic heritage, surely? Given that I think they're much more likely to be related to trolls than to anything in Gaelic folklore, just as trow suggests. —Ashley Y 02:42, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. In fact, I'd really like to see some evidence to back up the connection of trow and "black elves", drow and "dark elves" that's made here. It seems very like it's just being made out of convenience, with nothing to back it up. The whole section could do with a rewrite. Thorf 15:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
- I, too, would like to see some sources for these statements. :bloodofox: 05:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- As a regular visitor to the Shetlands (my mother is a native) I have never heard their 'dark elves' referred to as 'drow'. 'Trow' seems to be the common name of them there, and they are translated as 'trolls' when talking to non-Shetlanders. They also seem to be viewed as mischievous more than malicious as the article suggests, but unfortunately I have no sources to back this up. RossMM 15:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Warcraft elves
i dont think the night elves should be on this list. they are less dark then the wood-elves in warhammer. the're just nocturnal wood elves, not dark elves. also bloodelves are no dark elves. they arent necessarily evil, they just changed their plot to have an elven race added to the horde, and most elven kindred would distrust and dislike the blood elves for sure, being greedy and delving in the forbidden magic, but they arent evil. they would at worst be neutral.--Lygophile 05:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- I have removed the Warcraft entry for these reasons and because they are never referred to as "dark elves." :bloodofox: 14:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sort order?
Is there any ordering in both the "Dark elves in fiction" and "Famous Dark Elves in fiction" sections? It seems to me all the entries are just randomly placed after each other. Perhaps a alphabetical ordering would be nicer? --Mighty Jay 18:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- It might be nicer. I think a chronological order would be even better, since reading through it would show how they have been used historically. Goldfritha 00:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Michael Moorcock
How about adding Michael Moorcock`s Elric to fictional dark elves? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Guzzleguts (talk • contribs).
