Talk:Daniele De Rossi

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[edit] Red Card

Do we really need to add every red card he earns? --Panairjdde 01:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Hopefully he doesn't earn that many! Obviously, this one was in a critical game. Subsequent events will determine just how important it was- I would recommend leaving it in for now, pending any media reaction in Italy and the team's future progress in the tournament. Badgerpatrol 01:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

This is an enciclopedy, not a cristal ball. If the red card will earn any importance (weighted with the high importance a WC has), we will always have time to add it. For the time being, it is a useless information, and furthermore McBride is still alive and well, luckyly.

I do not support this over-covering current events, filling with details that are meaningless. It is very probable, even if De Rossi gets a six-match-stop, that in a five years span this will be forgotten, it is just a red card, after all.

And yes, he got other reds, if I remember well.--Panairjdde 01:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It indeed isn't a crystal ball, and therefore no predictions are made in the De Rossi article- it is simply a statement of fact. If De Rossi has any global fame, it is because of this. One does not have to have a crystal ball to work out that this story already has been touted extensively (e.g. [1]) and that it will appear in tomorrow's Italian press, who are I believe not renowned for being shrinking violets. Anyone looking for De Rossi in this encyclopaedia will be expecting to find this; a sending off of any international footballer (in a World Cup match especially) is blatantly notable enough to include in their biography. And if Italy go out or falter, it is very unlikely to be forgotten- not least because it was a horrible challenge. See here for a broadly analogous example. Badgerpatrol 01:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You wrote:

"Subsequent events will determine just how important it was- I would recommend leaving it in for now, pending any media reaction in Italy and the team's future progress in the tournament."

This means that the red card is un-encyclopedic per se; Do you think it will become important if Italian media will publish? A red card in a major competition is not always an important fact. Tomáš Ujfaluši, Mateja Kežman, and André Macanga have no reference to their red cards, and I'm sure Czech, Serbian, and Angolan media did write something! Even Pablo Mastroeni, a straight red card in the same match, has no reference to this disciplinary punishment in his page.

--Panairjdde 01:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I have stricken my previous edit to avoid confusion (I thought I already had- my previous edit was lost due to an edit conflict- mea culpa)- it was meant to indicate that events are plastic and the exact ramifications have yet to play out. Nontheless, a red card in any World Cup match is inherently notable. I recommend that you boldy update the other articles to which you refer. Badgerpatrol 02:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

YES! This RED CARD NEEDS TO BE NOTED! Does anyone care that it was a red card? No. But it was the most repugnant display of cheap violence I have ever seen in FIFA! This was a particularly blatent and bloody violation. This cretin should be banned from FIFA. Nobody cares about De Rossi- he will be remembered FOREVER as the cheap, unskilled Italian who turned a world cup match into a greasy knife fight.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.148.33.166 (talk • contribs) 05:51, June 18, 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if I like the tone of that. Please try and put across your point in a dispassionate way- and sign your posts. Badgerpatrol 11:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes from me too. The red card was a significant, dramatic, well-publicised event in that game and does need to be noted (though in a straightforward, unemotional manner). To deliberately not include it would be NPOV - especially since the article notes an example of De Rossi's fair play in refusing to allow a hand goal to stand. If we cut the red card, then we need to cut that hand goal reference too! Instead, we should leave BOTH references - one is negative, one is positive, both are significant and both contribute to an accurate profile of the player. Being "encyclopedic" means being NPOV, verifying facts etc etc, it doesn't mean only including the bare minimum of information. If it did, Wikipedia would be half the size it currently is and consist of not much more than a dull list of dates and statistics. Cheers.

Agreed- I was probably overly emotional. It is frustrating to see this type of poor sportsmaship continue from the infamous Italian team. (Recall the 2004 spitting in the Denmark player's face incident? http://acmilanvn.com/anh/totti_spit3.jpg) As an aside, wouldn't you apologise and pretend to be sorry if you were at risk of being kicked out of the World Cup, or worse? Ingenuine crocodile tears. (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-cro1.htm in case you need an explanation of crocodile tears)

The Italians aren't infamous for poor sportsmanship, or at least not to my knowledge. I recall various incidents of poor unsportsmanlike conduct and violent play, from a variety of teams (Argentina, England, Germany, Holland, Uruguay- the list is almost endless)- not just Italy. De Rossi's challenge was a very, very bad one, but that is all. I would indeed probably apologise if I was in danger of getting kicked out of the World Cup- but then again, I would also apologise because I was a good sportsman who was concerned for his opponent. Who knows which applies to De Rossi. We should bear in mind that he is quite unlikely to play again in the tournament anyway; I suspect FIFA will impose a three match ban. Anyway, this article should continue to represent a dispassionate NPOV. Badgerpatrol 18:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

And at any rate, apologizing isn't going to do anything about his being suspended for the next game, which is the game in which Italy risks being kicked out of the Cup. Either way, Italy must face elimination without De Rossi. TheProject 18:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not a chat room, opinions of De Rossi's behavior are completely irrelevant.