Template talk:Dablink

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[edit] Nominated for deletion

This template has been proposed for deletion. See templates for deletion to help reach a consensus on what to do.


Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 05:11, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Conclusion was to keep (Jan 10) -- era (Talk | History) 22:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overview

This box: view • talk • edit

[edit] Otheruses templates

To discuss these templates as a whole, please see Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation If you wish to discuss general wordings, rather than the wording or formatting of this specific template, don't post here, or else what you say will probably go unnoticed.

For a summary page on how to use these templates, see Wikipedia:Otheruses templates (example usage).

[edit] Generic

For example, {{dablink|For other senses of this term, see [[etc...]]}}. This template is adaptable, but fails to standardize hatnotes.

[edit] Otheruses

Note: All of these templates except {{Two other uses}} are special cases of {{Otheruses4}}

  • {{otheruses}} (disambiguous):
    For other uses, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otheruses1|USE}} (disambiguous):
    This article is about USE. For other uses, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{This|USE|PAGE}}:
    This article is about USE. For other uses, see PAGE.
  • {{otheruses2|PAGE}} (disambiguous):
    For other uses, see PAGE (disambiguation).
  • {{otheruses3|PAGE}}:
    For other uses, see PAGE.
  • {{otheruses4|USE1}} (disambiguous):
    This article is about USE1. For other uses, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otheruses4|USE1|USE2}}:
    This article is about USE1. For USE2, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otheruses4|USE1|USE2|PAGE2}}:
    This article is about USE1. For USE2, see PAGE2.
  • {{Two other uses|USE1|USE2|PAGE2|USE3|PAGE3}} (fully-specified):
    This article is about USE1. For USE2, see PAGE2. For USE3, see PAGE3.
  • {{Two other uses||USE2|PAGE2||}} (all parameters except second and third are optional; however, omitting both the first and fourth values creates ambiguity, so please avoid):
For USE2, see PAGE2. For other uses, see Dablink (disambiguation).

[edit] Other people

  • {{otherpersons}} (disambiguous):
    For other persons named Dablink, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otherpersons|USE}} (disambiguous):
    For other persons named USE, see USE (disambiguation).
  • {{otherpersons|USE|PAGE}}:
    For other persons named USE, see USE (disambiguation).
  • {{otherpeople2|PAGE}}:
    For other persons of the same name, see PAGE.
  • {{otherpeople3|USE1|USE2}}:
    This article is about USE1. For USE2, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otherpeople4|USE1|USE2|PAGE}}:
    This article is about USE1. For USE2, see PAGE.

[edit] Otherhurricaneuses

For articles on storms.
  • {{otherhurricaneuses}} (disambiguous):
    For other storms of the same name, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otherhurricaneuses|DISAMBIG}}:
    For other storms of the same name, see DISAMBIG.
  • {{otherhurricaneuses|DISAMBIG|THIS}}:
    This article is about THIS. For other storms of the same name, see DISAMBIG.
  • {{otherhurricaneuses3|USE1|USE2|MAIN}}:
    This article is about the USE1. For the USE2, see the main article, MAIN. For other storms of the same name, see Dablink (disambiguation).

[edit] For (other topic)

  • {{For}} (disambiguous):
    For {{{1}}}, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{For|OTHER TOPIC}} (disambiguous):
    For OTHER TOPIC, see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{For|OTHER TOPIC|PAGE}}:
    For OTHER TOPIC, see PAGE.
  • {{For|OTHER TOPIC|PAGE1|PAGE2}}:
    For OTHER TOPIC, see PAGE1 and PAGE2.
  • {{For2|OTHER TOPIC|LINK TO [[PAGE1]] AND [[PAGE2]]}}:
    For OTHER TOPIC, see [[LINK TO PAGE1 AND PAGE2]].

[edit] Otherusesof (topic)

  • {{otherusesof}} (disambiguous):
    For other uses of "Dablink", see Dablink (disambiguation).
  • {{otherusesof|TOPIC}}:
    For other uses of "TOPIC", see TOPIC (disambiguation).
  • {{otherusesof|TOPIC|PAGE}}:
    For other uses of "TOPIC", see PAGE.

[edit] Redirect

  • {{Redirect|REDIRECT}} (disambiguous):
    “REDIRECT” redirects here. For other uses, see REDIRECT (disambiguation).
  • {{Redirect|REDIRECT|DISAMBIG|PAGE}}:
    “REDIRECT” redirects here. For DISAMBIG, see PAGE.
  • {{Redirect2|REDIRECT1|REDIRECT2}} (disambiguous):
    "REDIRECT1" and "REDIRECT2" redirect here. For other uses, see REDIRECT1 (disambiguation).
  • {{Redirect3|REDIRECT|TEXT|ITALICS}}:
    "REDIRECT" redirects here. TEXT.
  • {{Redirect4|REDIRECT1|REDIRECT2}} (disambiguous):
    "REDIRECT1" and "REDIRECT2" redirect here. For other uses, see REDIRECT1 (disambiguation) and REDIRECT2 (disambiguation).
  • {{Redirect5|REDIRECT|USE|PAGE}}:
    "REDIRECT" redirects here. For USE, see PAGE.
  • {{Redirect6|REDIRECT|USE1|PAGE1|USE2|PAGE2}}:
    "REDIRECT" redirects here. For USE1, see PAGE1. For USE2, see PAGE2.
  • {{Redirect6|REDIRECT|USE1|PAGE1||}} (See note for {{Two other uses}} above)
"REDIRECT" redirects here. For USE1, see PAGE1. For other uses, see REDIRECT (disambiguation).

[edit] "Not to be confused with"...

[edit] Notes

Do not use subst: with these templates, as that will prevent:

  1. propagating changes as the template is modified; and
  2. the What links here (WLH) listing.


DO NOT EDIT THESE TEMPLATES UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING

These templates may be used in thousands of articles, and changing the syntax could therefore break thousands of articles. If you wish to edit a disambiguation template first ask yourself:

  1. Is there already another template that will do this job? We have lots of disambiguation templates already, see Category:Disambiguation and redirection templates.
  2. Do I really need a template for this? Will it ever get used on any other articles, or should I just use {{dablink}} instead?
  3. Do I know what will happen if I change the parameters around? Will it break existing uses of the template, and if so, can I fix them all?

[edit] Template name and usage scenarios

Referring to some historical comments on this page, I believe the name "dablink" is a contraction of "disambiguation link". However, the template doesn't seem to be particularly suitable for disambiguation, and certainly doesn't add any sort of link. I'm confused. Could somebody please fill me in here? -- era (Talk | History) 23:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

But those aren't very descriptive of what the template is for. It is for applying a format that is consistent with all the other disambiguation related notes, but which allows the actual text content to be adapted as needed. older ≠ wiser 02:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
So shouldn't older ≠ wiser's clarification above be added to a more prominent place in the documentation for this template? -- era (Talk | History) 03:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Good point, older≠wiser. Yes, era. The current text "This template provides HTML block around the material embedded within forcing browsers to react on the contained code and text within a div-/div block. This is very useful for binding effects within other templates, or on disambig lines heading an article." is not that accessible to the typical editor. Maybe saying something that emphasizes that this is a fall-back dab template when other more specific ones prove to be inadequate to the purpose of providing a dab-hatnote on an article page (avoiding the use of 'hatnote', though, as this isn't a term that a lot of people are familiar with). --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 10:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Usage of the template

What is the point of {{dablink|...}} when it is replacing something far simpler (:''...''). Please don't add unnecessarily complicated formatting for no reason, particularly not at the very start of articles where it is going to confuse people. Angela. 03:07, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

I understand the reasoning behind this template, but only after figuring it out for myself (in case the accepted formatting of disambig links changes, the template can be changed). This is a good idea, but it should be mentioned on Wikipedia:Disambiguation before people start hopping in and changing articles. dablink is also not the best name for this template. Rhobite 03:40, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)
View the source, there is more to the change than just italics. anthony (see warning) 14:22, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
It's a div with a class (presumably to be hidden in the print CSS), indent, and italics. I agree that it's a good idea but it should be explained and debated before it goes into general use. Rhobite 23:25, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)
I don't see why anyone would need to remove it from a printed version since it is useful information directly relevant to the text. I see no reason to add additional confusing templates. This increases the barrier to editing for no benefit. Angela. 00:05, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
Look at the top of Wikipedia:Copyright problems (noting of course that this is in the Wikipedia namespace). Would you want that in a printed copy? Brianjd 10:18, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)

I'm still cloudy on the advantage of this template over such things as {{otheruses}}, which has an essentially opposite directional orientation with respect to the linking concept explained. My interest comes as a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation. Courtland 15:32, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Horizontal rule or no

I have a problem with the indenting and I don't think I'm the only one (although I think we are in the minority). I would rather just add a horizontal line underneath. Brianjd 10:19, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)

The horizontal rule is evil and should be destroyed. It is one of the ugliest HTML elements and has defaced many a webpage. Please indent. JFW | T@lk 03:17, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The wording of the response made me laugh :). I do agree with User:Jfdwolff on this. Courtland 15:29, July 23, 2005 (UTC) P.S. I annihilated the horzontal line above, just a minor piece of deconstruction
Disagree. As stated the horizontal ruler is very ugly in almost every case. In fact, if you could run a search for the usage of horizontal rulers in articles, you could probably use that criteria to track down badly formatted pages. I don't think I've ever seen a well-formatted article that contained horizontal rulers. --Michiel Sikma 12:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Related Templates

I created Template:dablinktop as a header for disambiguation links on pages that are genuine articles — not disambiguation pages themselves, worthy of the Template:disambig.

—  <TALKJNDRLINETALK>     19:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

There are already a couple of disambig templates with a canned message, please have a look at Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Templates_for_disambiguation_links. --K. Sperling (talk) 00:41, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Request

Can [[Category:Disambiguation and Redirection templates|Dablink]] be added? —Mark Adler (markles) 22:52, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I second the request using <noinclude>[[Category:Disambiguation and Redirection templates|Dablink]]</noinclude>. – Doug Bell talk•contrib 00:51, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Done. howcheng {chat} 19:00, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polish version

Hi. I would like to propose to using Polish version of Dablink. Here you can see them:

I think that they are more readeable, or put in another words: you see them in the couple of secounds after page is displayed. Present form of Dablink is hard to see for those who are first time on Wikipedia.org. I saw a situation then somone think that he can not find on Wikipedia information he wants, becouse he didn't notice Disambiguation.

So whats why I propose to change this Template to something more "hiting in the eye". Egon 18:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subst

Should these be subst'ed? --Liface 18:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

  • No, but I couldn't give you the detailed reasoning why not. My own reasoning is based on the desire to be able to track dablink usage via the what-links-here association with this template, which can be used by either human or robotic actors to harvest dab-msg bearing article identities for a number of different purposes. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 19:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Another argument against substing is that it defeats one of the purposes of this template, to globally change the formatting on all the disambig links if the accepted format is ever changed. Binabik80 20:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polish interwiki

Please, add Polish interwiki: pl:Szablon:DisambigL. Thanks. Hołek ҉ 13:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] visual formatting should be done in CSS, not wiki markup

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Disambig_link_formatting — Omegatron 16:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. But couldn't you have done this yourself? Aren't you an admin? —Mets501 (talk) 20:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Of course. I wasn't asking for someone else to do it. I was asking if it should be done. There are a few different ways it could be implemented.
Note that people are going to want to to rever these changes if they haven't bypassed their cache. — Omegatron 20:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, the other templates that use this class need to be updated, which I am doing now.
{{primary}} uses class="notice". What's that for? — Omegatron 21:10, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
This change was not appropriate, since {{dablink}} has been subst'd in way too many places. Now those uses are all double-indented. Mike Dillon 22:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
You're right. But Omegatron has already changed many templates. What should we do? —Mets501 (talk) 22:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Can you (Mike) give an example of this? I don't see that subst'ing now makes any difference (although it might be possible that subst'ing some earlier version might cause problems). Without some evidence to consider, it's hard to evaluate your complaint. older ≠ wiser 22:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Los Angeles, California. Mike Dillon 22:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I see, thanks. Although I have to say, subst'ing dablink kind of runs contrary to the whole point of using dablink in the first place (which is to standardize the formating a bit). older ≠ wiser 22:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
See Macintosh for example. —Mets501 (talk) 22:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
There are only 548 times that this template has been substituted; should I just send my bot to fix it? —Mets501 (talk) 22:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
How did you determine that? If we can compile a good list, having a bot fix it should work. Determining what the original template was is probably not possible anymore. Mike Dillon 22:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Well, I think you guys have been a little too bold with some of these changes lately. Please don't take this the wrong way, Mets501, but I don't think you know enough about the technology to be making changes on this scale without discussion.
As for fixing it, it probably needs to be done by compiling a list of pages using the classes directly from the database dump and unsubst'ing those uses. I think all of the template and CSS changes probably should be rolled back in the meantime.
Don't get me wrong, this is a good idea, but it needs to be done in a controlled way. Mike Dillon 22:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

That's why templates shouldn't be substituted. The substituted instances will be updated over time. This method of formatting is superior. — Omegatron 22:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a list of substituted uses from the database dump. I do understand the technological aspect 100%, I was just hasty and didn't think that it might be used in other places and forgot about substitution.
OK. Like I said, don't take it the wrong way. Anyways, that list doesn't have Los Angeles, California. Mike Dillon 22:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
That was probably added since the last dump. Should I start fixing these substituted ones? (or am I being too hasty again? :-) —Mets501 (talk) 22:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the fixing the subst'd dablinks is hasty. We can do a second pass after you're done to see if there are any more. The extra indent isn't the end of the world. Mike Dillon 22:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Starting now. —Mets501 (talk) 22:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
You're right about the timing. It was done in this edit on November 25 by User:Mgekelly. I have asked him not to subst these templates and pointed him to this discussion. Mike Dillon 22:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another problem :-)

Now that I changed all the templates, the complaints are going to my talk page.  :-) See

See User_talk:Omegatron#Broken_templates and Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Someone.27s_screwed_up_the_formatting_of_the_dablinks.21.21.21

Another problem is the line break caused by the use of the definition list for indentation. We should either change the dablink class to display:block;, or change all the instances into p class="dablink" instead of span class="dablink".

Mets501, this is why I asked about it first instead of just doing it. Now you've rushed it. — Omegatron 22:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

This template is already a div, not a span. Changing it to a <p> probably makes sense. Mike Dillon 22:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Mind reverting all the changes until after the CSS is coded? Or code it soon? It looks awful everywhere... Titoxd(?!?) 22:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The CSS is already coded. People are having issues because of CSS caching, as is often the case with these things. Mike Dillon 22:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Try to persuade a developer to update $wgStyleVersion... that will kill caches everywhere. Titoxd(?!?) 22:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, that version number is not included in the site CSS link the way it is for the CSS in the skin. The link is "/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&usemsgcache=yes&action=raw&ctype=text/css&smaxage=2678400", without the current $wgStyleVersion (39). Mike Dillon 23:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Bug 8433 filed. Titoxd(?!?) 23:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
<p> tags are much harder to control. I'd prefer <div>'s. -- Renesis (talk) 22:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
What does "harder to control" mean? We should be using the most semantically appropriate HTML tag. I think p is appropriate for these short paragraphs of text. — Omegatron 01:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree that p makes sense semantically. I believe what Renesis is referring to is the fact that the default browser style for <div> is generally just display: block, while the default style for <p> often include line-height and other things. If you can't predict what individual browsers are doing, it's harder to control, whereas the fact the pretty much every browser has the same default styling for div makes it a cleaner starting point. Mike Dillon 01:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Ah. Well, I will change them all to p pretty soon unless anyone objects. — Omegatron 03:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Better yet, I'll convert them to dablink meta-templates. :-) Then if we change our minds, it's one change here. — Omegatron 03:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

In about 10 minutes, all the substitutions will be unsubstituted, and then everything will look the same everywhere. (I'm running my bot faster than usual as this is sort of urgent). —Mets501 (talk) 22:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent.  :-) — Omegatron 01:19, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Layout broken

The most recent change ([1]) broken the usual layout (indented, with italics), thus I had to revert it. Please provide a test version before changing it once more. We don't one thousands of pages broken. -- User:Docu

Have you purged your cache? Your change results in the dablinks being double-indented. older ≠ wiser 13:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Seems like I didn't do it sufficiently. Works fine now. Thank you for fixing it. -- User:Docu

One way to possibly ease this pain would be do add inline style to the {{dablink}} template to duplicate what's in Common.css. It could be left in for as long as necessary to make sure people's browser caches have cleared on their own. This would be made easier if all the other templates using class="dablink" called this one as a meta-template, as suggested by Omegatron. Mike Dillon 17:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks like this has already been done by Omegatron, so that makes things easy. The only caveat is that the inline CSS will have higher importance than CSS rules using ".dablink" as a selector, so people who want to override the style in personal CSS will have to use "!important", since rules in a style attribute have the same specificity as an id selector rule (100). Mike Dillon 17:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
To be clear, I meant that the meta-template thing has been done. I still think that the inline CSS should be added as a stop-gap. It doesn't make sense to keep telling individual people to clear their caches. Mike Dillon 06:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Done. —Mets501 (talk) 15:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with nested italics

By placing the italicization via the style attribute for the div, nested italics which should occur with items such as book titles can't.

Please change

<div class="dablink" style="font-style:italic; padding-left:2em;">{{{1}}}</div>

to

<div class="dablink" style="padding-left:2em;">''{{{1}}}''</div>

so that nested italics work properly. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Another way to address this would be to add CSS rules for <i> tags that occur inside of .dablink. For example:
.dablink i {
    font-style: normal;
}
Since MediaWiki won't generate nested <i> tags, this should cover all the cases. Mike Dillon 02:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Done. If the effect does not display as desired, re-add {{editprotected}}. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 03:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Made up a /doc file

Hi! Can you add Template:Dablink/doc to the template. (It seems likely to survive TFD <g>, and I wish I'd known of it sooner.)

I added a couple of cats ans stubbed in some interwiki's so it would travel better. Best regards and Happy New Year. // FrankB 16:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Done. J Di talk 20:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Afterthought Query for opinion

  • Just wondering whether it would be a good idea to add 2em on the right side to stand clear of infoboxes, images, etc. Or is that likely to mess up some of the works inside template tables and such? // FrankB 16:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I've thought of that too. Might be a good idea. — Omegatron 18:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Then go dude! Do it! Thanks // FrankB 18:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] X Redirects here

Would it be possible to have an optional parameter for the "redirects here" usage, to add invisible information to the html expansion so that user javascript (and perhaps ultimately standard javascript controlled by a user preference) can hide the text if the page was not reached via the redirect in question? —Random8322007-01-28 06:23 UTC (01/28 01:23 EST)

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