Image talk:Cymophyllus fraserianus.jpg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of a fair use image as a replaceable image. Please do not modify it.

The result of the debate was to Delete the image. Shyam ^(T/C) 16:53, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

This image was uploaded from the U.S. National Herbarium Plant Image Collection (link), but only after an extensive internet search revealed no free images. It was uploaded for the purpose of providing a thumbnail illustration of a plant listed on the List of Species of Special Concern in Rabun County, Georgia. The plant is listed on the list as being critically imperiled, which means that creating a free replacement image is not reasonably possible. The image is currently only being used on the List of Species of Special Concern in Rabun County, Georgia (other than a thumbnail on my user page to illustrate images that I have uploaded). If someone can find a free image or I find one in the future, I would agree that this image should be deleted. However, at this time, a free replacement image can not be reasonably found. While I am certainly no expert in the area of free use images, I believe that this image should not be deleted.--Tlmclain | Talk 13:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use criterion 1 says fair use images may only be used if "No free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information." Whether a free image already exists is beside the point; the fact that the plant is endangered and difficult or impossible to find growing in the wild is perhaps not beside the point. (Either way, though, you shouldn't have fair use images on your user page.) —Angr 13:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. This image no longer appears on my user page. --Tlmclain | Talk 13:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Could we not expect the United States Fish and Wildlife Service or simmilar US federal govenment agency to have some photos of these somewhere? A quick search turned up this 1913 ilustration http://plants.usda.gov/java/largeImage?imageID=cyfr_001_avd.tif the rest do seem to be copyrighted by the Smithsonian. I'll leave it up for others to descide wether or not an old line drawing would "adequately give the same information" as the photo. --Sherool (talk) 17:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

This is the area of free use that confuses me the most. Yes, it would seem to be reasonable to expect that the United States Fish and Wildlife Service or simmilar US federal govenment agency to have some photos of these somewhere, but, after extensive searching, I do not believe that such an image is available anywhere online (of course, the Internet is fluid, with things being added by the minute). Moreover, I think that it is fair to say that an old line drawing does not "adequately give the same information" as the photo. So, as I see it, 1) we have an image that, because the plant difficult or impossible to find growing in the wild, cannot reasonbly be created in a free form and 2) it seems theoretically likely that the US federal govenment agency may have photos of the plant somewhere, but no one has been able to locate them. To me, that means that a free replacement image can not be reasonably found or created. That is why I maintain that this image should not be deleted. --Tlmclain | Talk 18:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

There is something to be said for anatomical and botanical drawings, namely that the artist (if he is any good) intimately knows the subject depicted and will emphasize the salient features. Yes, an good "old line drawing" easily gives the same information as a photograph, oftentimes more. Dr Zak 23:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.