Talk:Cyanocobalamin

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cyanocobalamin is included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection, or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version. Please maintain high quality standards and, if possible, stick to GFDL-compatible images.
Chemicals WikiProject
Portal:Chemistry
 Chemistry Portal
Cyanocobalamin is within the scope of WikiProject Chemicals, a daughter project of WikiProject Chemistry, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of chemicals. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.
Core This is a core article in the WikiProject Chemicals worklist
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

Moved from Talk:Cobalamin:
In accordance with Wikipedia:WikiProject_Drugs naming policy, I propose we move this page to the INN cyanocobalamin. If you have any concern with this proposal, please discuss it on this page. Matt 00:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Vitamin B12 is a popular substance for use in diluting (or cutting) methamphetamine.

Vitamin B12 costs about €70 per gram, substantially more than methamphetamine! It is also bright red in colour. Removed as vandalism. Physchim62 19:29, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Some strange citations

Some of those external links are pretty bad. The Advice for vegans on B12 article sounds like it was written by a high school student. Also the Vitamin B12 information seems to be down. I'm not sure if the site is gone for good or what. I'll have to see if I can add a bit to this article. --Genericdave 22:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree and thus removed the "Advice for vegans" link. Not only is the style of the article (transscript?) poor, it also contains grave factual errors, for instance: Vitamin B-12 is made by little microscopic plant cells called soil bacteria. The vegansociety.com does a much better job to explain the issues and seems sufficient anyway. Aragorn2 11:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
i have no i dea wut they r talking about..u? - [User:69.237.97.141|69.237.97.141]] 23:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which bacteria?

Which bacteria produces B12? Anybody know the species?

Looking around, I haven't found any specific species mentioned but many places saying that "many" bacteria produce it. I think that it's a fairly common process for bacteria if there's enough cobalt around. However, the bacteria living in the intestine that produce it are too far down for enough to be absorbed by the host animal, so you have to get it the second time around (so to speak). See [1] for information about B12 and horses. Matt 00:49, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] no copyrighted materials

Please, don't submit compyrighted material. There was just now a lot of material added to the article, and some of it (in the Structure section) was taken more or less verbatim from ISBN 0471496405. I removed the whole edit because at least a part of it was copyrighted. --Andkaha(talk) 23:49, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Dude, what the . . . ? All the information I have used comes from several free on-line resources (magazines) and namely the introduction part of several articles. What do you mean "part of it was copyrighted" what part of it? The whole work wasn't just a simple "copy-paste", why do you ignore the fact that I have spent some time doing that. I used parts from several different sources, I had to delete a lot of junk info written by the original authors , such as history references, then I had to organize the parts so the result looks compact and without any un necessary information or redundancy, and is easy to understand, and all this process takes time not some 5 min or even half an hour but much more than that. If you think some parts of it were somehow "copyrighted" why did you take out everything incluiding the info for the enzymes, which can be found in any Biochemistry textbook, and finaly why did you take the pictures out? Are they copyrighted too? I made the pictures using ISIS Draw, then i converted the files into *.bpm and eventually *.png. I am pretty sure those who have studied B12 would be happy to share their knowledge with the world for FREE. And then i have never seen before the book you have given a reference to - ISBN 0471496405. BorisTM 13:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Good day to you too. I'm sorry I upset you (or so it seems anyway). I based my fact on a simple google search on some of the phrases used in the Structure section of your edit. They all pointed to here. The book text might be available for free, but it is copyrighted. I reverted the edit because of this and also because I simply couldn't tell the source of the rest of the material. If you feel strongly about including this text in the article, then please cite the sources. See e.g. WP:V and WP:CITE, and also Wikipedia:Copyrights#Using_copyrighted_work_from_others. Kind regards, Andkaha(talk) 16:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Alright. BorisTM 13:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Someone should take a look at this and relate it with the b12 article:

http://www.rawbc.org/articles/B12.html

It could be explored the nutritional side of it and the vegetarian, etc diets and relation to b12


Why is there no information about miso - a paste that is well known to contain B12 and fits the vegan dietry? And if B12 is present only is non-vegan food, how comes that meat eaters also have a lack of B12? Some statements simply seem to be either contradicting each other, or to be based on still not enough researched ground. 84.145.231.254 02:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC) renu

An interesting question is, how comes that cows have a lot of B12? Do they eat other cows or all their life drink cow-milk?? I don't know about such ones, I must admit. Ra

Their gut microflora, the very same one that enables them to digest the plant material, provides them with enough B12. -- Boris 18:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


heard that E.coli do produce it (byrumour of course)

[edit] From page

This was posted as a HTML comment in the article. I thought it would get more attention here.

Later on in this article, nori and barley grass are given as (inadequate) sources of B12, and another plant - Angelica Sinensis - as being a good source of B12. This contradicts the statement that B12 cannot be made by plants - so there is a problem here (from User:195.10.41.13)

Matt 00:12, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


I think the part refering to the Steven Segal drink should be striken. Remember 18:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] mcg?

Why is this article using mcg instead of µg? Should it be changed? 218.103.142.233 03:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I would be inclined to agree. --Gak 20:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Angelica sinensis

Quote: The only known vegan sources of substantial B12 ... are the Chinese herb Dang Gui (Angelica sinensis), used for centuries for treating anemia

Every so often, a new claim about vegetable sources of vitamin B12 pops up. The problem is that some plants do contain molecules structurally related to the known variants which might be new forms of vitamin B12 (AFAIK the only substances known to be fully active vitamin B12 are cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin), but they are not known to provide full vitamin B12 activity in humans, or even known not to provide it. For example, the substances contained in "Dang Gui" may show vitamin B12-like activity when it comes to blood formation, but might lack vital vitamin B12 activity in one or several other areas (e.g. removal of homocysteine, myelin formation etc.). The article should make it clear that this source of (what might be) vitamin B12 cannot be considered safe until at least one of the following have been demonstrated:

  • Angelica sinensis contains cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin.
  • Angelica sinensis contains a chemically related substance that exhibits full vitamin B12 activity in humans. Aragorn2 11:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)



Granny Smith apples

Research by Krug, et al. at the U of Munich (Journal von nutrional Medizin Januar 2004 v.17 ausgabe #1, seiten 169-178) showed that Granny Smith apples contain an adequate amount of b-12. They concluded that eating 3 medium sized apples per week provides a "minimum functioning requirement." It was interesting to note that the other apples that Krug tested were "significantly lower than granny smith." They theorize that the granny smith is the least hybridized of these apples and that might account for its high nutritional content. ---Guthrie March 12 2006

[edit] Where does the chicken get it?

Where does the chicken get it's B12, to put it into the egg?

Oh, yes and where do the animals take their B12 to put it in their meat? It sounds a bit inconsistent to me. -- anonymouse

Animals don't make B12 either, they get it by eating dirt which contains the bacteria which makes it. It's more abundant in natural, healthy soils. B12 for supliments and fortification is cultured from those same bacteria - grown in large vats.

This argument is very weak, plants get all they need from soil, sunlight, and water, planting a person would be pretty ineffective even though they would have all the elements that a plant requires to grow. The fact is that human beings cannot synthesize B12, period. I assume the chicken gets the B12 where we do, microscopic organisms. These are found naturaly in our guts, and in the soild. Unfortunately in our guts they are too far down the digestive tract for proper B12 absorbsion. I am not sure if any animals are capable of B12 synthesis. (P.S. I am vegaterian so I worry about B12 --Mig77 09:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Please read section two (2) of this link EZNC. That should explain where cows, and possibly other animals get their B12 from. Thanks. C3045051 05:03, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plant Cobalamin

Coca leaf contains B12. So does American Ginseng. Look for "Vit-B12" in the Ginseng and Coca listings on "Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases. [Online Database] 31 October 2006."

Cobalamin and cyanocobalamin are NOT the same thing. The article should be called "Cobalamin" with "cyanocobalamin" as a subheading, under which it actually states what cyanocobalamin is. The "purification process" involves poisoning vats of fermenting bacteria with cyanide so that they will secrete cyanocobalamin (cobalamin bound to cyanide). (See the Wikipedia article on Cyanide under the heading Treatment of poisoning and antidotes.) Cobalamin is the human body's natural defense against cyanide poisoning.

Depending on cyanocobalamin supplements for your B12 means that your body is unable to protect itself against cyanide, and if you get no other source of B12, you are likely to be diagnosed with bi-polar disorder ("At doses insufficient to cause loss of consciousness, the symptoms can also include faintness, drowsiness, anxiety and excitement." Wikipedia article on Cyanide, under Subacute poisoning).

--4.245.95.7 04:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)Dyjak

That's an interesting argument. Can you please provide some links to references so that people can expand this article? Thankyou. C3045051 05:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I would agree with the part that says cobalamin is vitamin B12. Cyanocobalamin, hydroxocobalamin, methylcobalamin, etc. are all variations on a theme, because cobalamin cannot exist independently (the empty site must be filled). The article title should be cobalamin and not cyanocobalamin, which is merely one form of the compound. --Gak 21:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Equating B12 with its cyano complex is misleading. 67.117.145.193 08:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of Drugbox vs Chembox templates

Cyanocobalamin
Systematic (IUPAC) name
 ?
Identifiers
CAS number 68-19-9
ATC code B03BB01
PubChem 5479203
DrugBank APRD00326
Chemical data
Formula C63H88CoN14O14P 
Mol. mass 1355.37 g/mol
Pharmacokinetic data
Bioavailability readily absorbed in lower half of ileum
Protein binding Very high to specific transcobalamins plasma proteins
binding of hydroxocobalamin is slightly higher than cyanocobalamin.
Metabolism hepatic
Half life Approximately 6 days
(400 days in the liver)
Excretion  ?
Therapeutic considerations
Pregnancy cat.

?
Legal status

POM(UK)
Routes oral, iv

Given, as the article states that "cyanocobalamin, which is the principal B12 form used for foods and in nutritional supplements" and the article mostly discusses deficiency conditions, "Side effects, contraindications, and warnings" and "Interactions with drugs", would the template:drugbox be a more useful source of information? It also allows 2 sets of images which the current article awkwardly shows. I provide here what I propose with the template partly/largely already filled-in. However, I recognise that B12 is a natural compound and relates therefore not exclusively to medical discussion, so I can foresee others disagreeing - hence my hesitation at being BOLD. So please let me know what you think :-) David Ruben Talk 23:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I like it. Put it in! B12 is excreted in the urine as are all B vitamins (being water soluble). B12 excretion in the urine is also the basis of the Schilling test.--Gak 16:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Termites

Termites contain B12 because B12 is contained in all animal food sources. How is this relevant or interesting? I move to delete this.--Gak 15:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The section is Sources of B12. Following this line of thought one should delete the references to eggs, dairy etc. too. Just leave a reference that says B12 is contained in all animal food sources (I bet you will have trouble finding a reference for that blanket statement). As to the relevance: Do insects contain B12? yes. Has it been scientificaly measured? yes. It this quantity of B12 significant? (see reference). Granted you may nof find this interesting (so rephrase), but it is relevant, because they contain B12 and this is a section on Sources of B12. --Mig77(t) 10:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] allergy

Is it really necessary to have the annoying and irrelevant comment on allergies. There is about one case report of B12 allergy per decade in the medical literature; and it is obvious that people who are allergic to it should not take it. Of course this doesn't stop fish from a supermarket having a sticker which says, "may contain fish," but we do not have to play their silly games. In any case, it is suggested in those rare case reports that it is IV preservative, or something other additive which has caused the allergy. It is too rare for anyone to have bothered to find out what. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Waster (talk • contribs) 17:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../c/y/a/Talk%7ECyanocobalamin_12a5.html"