Talk:Culture of Taiwan

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[edit] Parity to Taiwan Page

There is a culture section in Taiwan; At the moment, due to the small size of this page, these two should be identical. Although I feel as though the redundancy is unneccesary, this particular page COULD be greatly expanded, therefore I left it.--50Stars 20:45, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Colonial influence

can anyone tell me how much "Dutch and Spanish" influenced Taiwanese culture? Ware ware 04:31, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Interesting observation. How about the catholic religion(天主教和基督教隨著西班牙、荷蘭勢力，先後進入台灣傳教 , I thought one of the three largest catholic churches in east Asia was established by the Spanish priest[1])? Architecture?(Fort San Domingo-red hair)? How about the heritage of the Pepo writing? Perhaps we can do some research and see if there is any more scholarly discussion on the webpage.Mababa 04:58, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wow, you are right. One church building influences the entire country of Taiwan. How euro-centric of you...

Interesting article:荷蘭統治之下的台灣教會語言學. Even though this article seemed to deny Dutch's influence in the Chirstianism of Taiwan today, it could still be debatable. Moreover, I thought there is indeed a concentrated cohort of Chirstian/Catholics in the southern part of Taiwan, the area where mostly used to be ruled by Dutch.Mababa 05:15, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

So it's mostly religious? I was thinking more in lines of language, customs, cuisine, holidays or what nots, since the majority of Taiwanese people are Taoists/Buddhists/Superstitious, rather than Christians. Ware ware 06:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

According to the page Taiwan Tourism Bureau, Dutch's influence on Taiwan has been classified as Colonial Culture. It seemed that the romanized aboringinal writing at least lasted until the Japanese rule but lost under KMT rule. As for cusine, probably only the beef noodles (牛肉麵) was preserved, since the bulls were introduced by Dutch..... I am certainly not an expert on this topic and I am not sure whether my answer would quench your inquisition. It may not necessary to introduce a cuisine or costum to call it a culture either. Since this is being claimed by the government, I wonder if we should do more research and try to expand this since you brought this up or perhaps you would prefer to trim it.Mababa 06:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we should add a section on the religions of Taiwan, and maybe add some history section including dutch influence that's not covered by the CIA world factbook. Ware ware 20:56, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

We can certainly do that. It would take some time on information gathering for that. Perhaps someone should write on a new article Taiwanese religion and incorporate parts in this article. We can certainly make it our first colloboration proposal on Taiwan-related notice board too. Embarrassingly, as you said, a large portion of Taiwanese are superstitious. I have no clue on where the origin of those superstition as religions come from. :(Mababa 06:41, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think it had to do with early immigrants' need for religion when developing Taiwan, which was very difficult. Ware ware 06:35, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Spanish adn Dutch influence? No way. Proof? Blueshirts 03:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pupet show

Information[2] Mababa 03:24, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject designation

User:Certified.Gangsta has repeatedly removed {{WPCHINA}} from this talk page. "China" refers to the nation China, with no political implications. Moreover, articles about Taiwan also go under WikiProject China. Is there any rationale for not including this article in WikiProject China or for including this article in another WikiProject? Thank you. —dto (talkcontribs) 04:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Please refer to the talkpage of Chinese. I clearly pointed out the diff. theories of the relations of ROC and PRC. This template indirectly implies Taiwan is part of China, which is actually a controversial political issue since quite a lot of Taiwanese doesn't consider themselves to be Chinese. The inclusion has strong POV issue especially on a culture page since Taiwan and China culture differ. (similar only to marginal extent)--Certified.Gangsta 05:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't see any reason not to include this article in this WikiProject unless subprojects about Taiwan or the ROC are created (which I don't think is necessary). Kusma (討論) 07:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

If you think Chinese and Taiwanese culture are similar only to marginal extent, you clearly don't know enough about Taiwan to edit articles about Taiwanese issues in an encyclopedia. As there was no Cultural revolution in the ROC, some parts of Chinese culture are stronger in Taiwan than in Mainland China. Kusma (討論) 07:21, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I highly doubt if you ever been to Taiwan in your lifetime. In any case, most Taiwanese have been in Taiwan for centuries and I really don't see Taiwanese culture being any closer to Chinese culture than other east Asian culture. From a language perspective, yeah, it was harshly imposed by Chiang-Kai Shek, but the way of life, ideas, and overall culture are extremely different. Taiwan is a strongly westernized (Americanized) society with significant Japanese influence. The culture in Taiwan could be considering a blend of many cultures, thus creating its distinct culture.--Certified.Gangsta 18:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I get a sense that you are making this up, as the ridiculousness of the ideas you present seem to be not espoused anywhere else, even by independence supporters. The question is, have you been to Taiwan? I certainly have. And in many ways, Chinese culture is better preserved in Taiwan (think temples) than in mainland China. So should I remove the CHINA tag from Talk:Culture of China?

And perhaps you will want to read about the linguistic classification of Taiwanese (linguistics). Both Min and Mandarin are classified as Chinese.--Jiang 09:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Can we please finish discussing this before making any changes to WikiProject designation? I don't think that's too much to ask. (Marking such a change minor is somewhat irritating, too.) Thanks. —dto (talkcontribs) 05:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I respectfully decline although I do appreciate your effort to communicate on the ground that none of you ever thought about discussing it before introducing the project designation in the 1st place.--Certified.Gangsta 08:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

In response to Jiang, I'm not making anythin' up. Just because others don't advocate Chinese annexation doesn't mean my argument was ridiculous. I really don't care whether you've been to Taiwan or not since I have no way of finding out. Blank statement serve no purpose here. --Certified.Gangsta 02:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You are the one questioning another user's credentials by asking whether that user has been in Taiwan. I took some pictures in Taiwan: Commons:User:Jiang/Taiwan. If you are not the sole source of your information, then back it up. Cite the books, magazines, websites, etc. that say what you say is true. Otherwise, we cant take you seriously given the absurdity of your assumptions.--Jiang 02:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Your reasoning is absurd. Based on your reasoning, Japanese project should cover this page or even Dutch/Portuguese/American as well since obviously Japanese has a lot of influence in Taiwanese culture.--Certified.Gangsta 22:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Who thinks Taiwanese are culturally different from mainland Chinese? No, I don't want to hear your opinion on this matter. Who? --Jiang 04:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the tag should stay: until Wikipedia:WikiProject China's scope is changed to specifically exclude Taiwan, this article deserves to have the tag. enochlau (talk) 09:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Your reasoning is totally wrong. The project tag implies China has control over Taiwan and obviously violated the NPOV policy. Are you saying if WikiProject Japan claimed Taiwan as part of its "scope" then the tag should be there? The whole idea is strongly biased. We're talking about culture of Taiwan not China.--Certified.Gangsta 08:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

No it doesn't. The project tag does not imply China has control over Taiwan. It implies Taiwan is somehow related to China. Please stop with this nonsense.--Jiang 10:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The only one making up a non-issue is yourself. It is worth noting that the initial addition of the tag was brought up by that sock of revolverocelotx all part his POV pushing, anti-bonafide.hustla campaign. I mentioned this before, culture of taiwan also has great influence from japann yet we don't put those projec tag up because it would cause controversies. For example, for culture of Canada, we don't put up a Culture of USA tag on there. Your reasoning doesn' make sense.--Certified.Gangsta 03:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Certified.Gangsta again

Now Certified.Gangsta can't understand that it is not necessary to include Culture of Taiwan in the cats Taiwan and Republic of China when it is already in the cat Taiwanese culture which is included in those cats. Please explain it to him, or, if he can't understand it, revert him. --Ideogram 04:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Preparatory to filing an RFC, we need to show evidence that at least two users tried to resolve the dispute. So please comment on User talk:Certified.Gangsta. --Ideogram 04:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I have filed an RFC --Ideogram 05:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of template

I hate the navigation template. Links should be in the text, in context, not spammed onto some menu where they take up space without being interesting to the reader. Thoughts? --Ideogram 20:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

are you talking about the "culture of asia" template? Yeah I agree we don't need that kind of templates. It would be nice to have specific templates like WW2 template in WW2 related articles or "big picture" templates like chinese history template for dynasty articles. But this culture of asia template doesn't really add anything to the present article. Blueshirts 21:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I was actually talking about the "Taiwan related articles" template I removed already. But I was going to remove the culture of asia template too, I'll go ahead and do that and see if anyone objects. --Ideogram 21:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I opt for the removal of "dutch and spanish" influence. It's preposterous to include the two. The discussion from above mentions religion. But that's not really "dutch and spanish", it's more religious proselytization than cultural exchange with any particular country. Most people on Taiwan follow traditional Chinese folk religion and customs and one would be hard pressed to say if there's any "dutch and spanish" influence on Taiwanese culture. Even Japanese influence is faint in the current generation. Even my grandparents, who speak fluent japanese because they were colonial subjects, don't celebrate japanese holidays but always celebrate chinese new years and go to taoist temple often. So, please don't make the culture of taiwan article into an amalgation of some unsubstantiated mutlicultural "ocean's Taiwan" cringe-inducing page, please. Blueshirts 23:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. --Ideogram 23:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't assume you, your grandparents or whatever speak for Taiwan.--Certified.Gangsta 05:39, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and of course you do. All of which is irrelevant, since this is Wikipedia, and what happens to this article is determined by consensus, not by what any one person says. --Ideogram 06:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

gangsta, you have proven yourself to be ~~virtually brain-dead~~ and know absolutely nothing about taiwan, so shut it and quit embarassing yourself. Blueshirts 19:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Be careful, you're just giving him an excuse to accuse you of personal attacks. --Ideogram 00:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

From what I've seen on this talkpage, it's more about a forum to attack me with incivil comments rather than constructive discussion about the relevant article. What should I engage in a discussion with someone who tells me to "shut it and quit embarassing yourself"? Respect goes both ways.--Certified.Gangsta 17:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You certainly aren't going to get your way by edit-warring. That will just get you blocked again. --Ideogram 17:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You are disrupting all over the place. Edit warring and stalking my contributions will get YOU blocked. People aren't stupid here. Don't assume you are always right. DISCUSS--Certified.Gangsta 17:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I already stated my reasons above. You haven't replied to them. --Ideogram 17:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The only reason you stated is that you don't like the template. That's not a valid reason to justify removal.--Certified.Gangsta 18:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Templates take up a lot of space with links that are unlikely to be interesting to the reader. Those links belong in the text in context. And what is your reason? --Ideogram 18:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

When readers are reading this article, it is likely that they will want to read similar articles to have a more thorogh understanding of Taiwanese culture. Removing them will not give them the choice. Unlikely to be interesting? That's your POV.--Certified.Gangsta 18:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Those links will be in the text. We also have categories for navigation. Not to mention there are a lot of redlinks there. And so far you haven't said anything that isn't your POV. --Ideogram 18:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, what the only thing we could do right now is to stop edit war, revert it to the pre-edit war version, and actually discuss. You don't seem willing to do that. --Certified.Gangsta 18:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I am discussing with you right now. It will not stay in your preferred version unless you get consensus behind you. Did I mention that Blueshirts agrees with me? That's what consensus means, getting people to agree with you. --Ideogram 18:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You need to cut the talk about consensus. There's a reason why wikipedia doesn't always follow consensus but content factuality. Since there are more 1 billion Chinese and only 20 million Taiwanese. (possibly similar proportion on wikipedia too) Consensus will make all Taiwanese article pro-China and all US-related article anti-US. Again, discussion could only take place if we go back to the pre-edit war version and cease edit warring. Hopefully, come up with a compromise.--Certified.Gangsta 18:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Consensus is Wikipedia policy. If you don't understand that, you don't belong here. You are not allowed to make discussion contingent on what the current version is. --Ideogram 18:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You're not respecting my proposal for a ceasefire? Apparently, you're not willing to compromise but just making blank statements as long as your version stays. That's not the way it works.--Certified.Gangsta 18:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

We have a cease-fire. The fact that it is not your preferred version is irrelevant. And I am not making blank statements, I have stated my reasons and you have not responded to them. And don't try to tell me how it works. --Ideogram 18:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

We can't discuss if one of our preferred versions is one there currently. What's your response for edit warring on John Profumo?? You have anything to say about that?? Note that there was no opposition to my change except you who stalked my contributions.--Certified.Gangsta 18:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

_I_ can discuss if my preferred version is there. But so far the evidence is that you can't. Did you notice I had stopped reverting you at John Profumo? --Ideogram 18:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

That's not a fair way to discuss if my preferred version or your preferred version is there. We need to get this article back to the pre-edit war version (the one with no visible objection). What you did in John Profumo and Michelle Marsh is a harassment campaign against me.--Certified.Gangsta 21:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

No, there is no Wikipedia policy about what version should be there during discussions. And allegations of harassment are not relevant here. --Ideogram 21:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I know there isn't, so you're saying you want to go back to edit war? or compromise? or is this just a stalling tactic to keep your version there?--Certified.Gangsta 22:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

If you respond to my reasons, I will continue talking to you. Anything else you say will be ignored. --Ideogram 22:03, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Great, you didn't have any reasons other than assuming the related articles are not appealing to other editors. My business is done with you. And don't ever post on my talkpage again unless you have something important to say, anything else will be interpret as harassment.--Certified.Gangsta 22:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You're reverting more stuff than the templates, and you haven't provided any relevant or convincing reasons to do so. All you've ever done was yelling "pro-chinese!" and write some very egregious misrepresenations about the people of taiwan, which shows that you know very little on the subject. Obviously you are not taiwanese, so don't pretend to be one and try not to misconstrue this thing into a "china vs taiwan" issue to cover up your ignorance on the subject. Blueshirts 23:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] From looking at the article....

First of all, I don't see why this page can't go under the Taiwan project and be done with it - its placement in three different Projects is a bit extreme. Secondly, most of this article is links to other articles and a bits of not very relevant trivia ("Ang Lee is a Taiwanese director popular in the West") - it this article even necessary if it's covered everywhere else? MSJapan 22:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not really a problem for an article to be in multiple projects, it happens to WPCHINA articles a lot because the topic is so broad. See Go (board game) for instance.

The article is in really sad shape, but the subject is important and I'm hoping people will come along and improve it. --Ideogram 22:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LionHeartX

An admitted sockpuppet of banned user RevolverOcelotX, this user has a history of pro-China, pro-Communist edits. Anyway, it was previously agreed that he should stay out of these pages in exchange of his unblock. Please don't edit again. Thank you--Certified.Gangsta 22:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No personal attacks. If you object to LionheartX's edits, please discuss your objections to those edits.

ad hominim attacks are not acceptable on Wikipedia. --Sumple (Talk) 23:29, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

He forfeited his right to edit here. Anyway, follow your own advice. From your talkpage, you and ideogram have made many personal attacks toward me and Bishonen.--Certified.Gangsta 06:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Groundlessly accusing me of personal attacks is a personal attack. Pray retract your accusation or substantiate it with evidence in the form of diffs.

In either case, I am not the one disputing another editor's edits, you are. You still have not put forth a reason of what is wrong with LionheartX's edits. --Sumple (Talk) 10:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gangsta RFC

Please comment at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Certified.Gangsta. --Ideogram 23:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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Talk:Culture of Taiwan

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Contents

[edit] Parity to Taiwan Page

[edit] Colonial influence

[edit] Pupet show

[edit] WikiProject designation

[edit] Certified.Gangsta again

[edit] Discussion of template

[edit] From looking at the article....

[edit] LionHeartX

[edit] Gangsta RFC

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