Talk:Cuisine of the Southern United States

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This page is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on food and drink on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cuisine of the Southern United States article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Contents 1 To Do 2 Livermush? 3 Grits 4 history 5 Picture? 6 food list 7 Bob Evans 8 Photo 9 Pie 10 What about the English? 11 Famous Amos 12 New to Wikipedia 13 Move 14 Page Move 15 Soul Food?

[edit] To Do

I whipped this up because I wanted to edit the page, but wasn't sure where to start. My experience here is mostly as an outsider - while I've lived my whole life in the South, those who cooked for me grew up mostly in California. So I'm not entirely familiar with the Southern pallet. Todo says the To Do list is "Not a place for experimental ideas (these should be discussed first to reach a consensus)", but I wanted to try it anyway. --Golbez 08:28, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Livermush?

I've lived in the South my whole life and I have never ever heard of that. Mike H 08:34, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

• Welcome to the horror that is North Carolina cuisine. ;) Livermush, chili and slaw on everything, and a vinegary red stuff they pour on shredded pork and call "BBQ". It truly offends my Texas sensibilities. Google seems to agree that it's NC-only. One link says, "2 years in North Carolina, never got a good answer as to what livermush really is. It kind of looks like shoe leather though... really old shoe leather."

The recipe seems to be:

1 fresh hog liver
1 1/2 lbs. fresh fat pork
2 c. cornmeal
Red pepper
Salt
Black pepper
Sage

Cook liver and fat pork until tender.  Remove from broth the liver only and grind.  Add corn meal, peppers, and sage to taste.  Add enough of the broth to soften mixture. Cook in saucepan until meal has cooked, stirring constantly. Put in mold. Press down until cold.  Slice and serve cold or broil.

[1]

Sounds absolutely horrid, doesn't it? ;) I've heard of it mostly being in cube form, and either spread on bread, or heated and eaten that way. --Golbez 09:33, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

Carolinians use a light vinegar based sauce to emphasize the flavor of the higher quality pork used. Other areas, such as Texas, tend to use a thicker more dominating kethup based sauce to mask the flavor of lower quality meats ;) --Presnell 12:24, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Them's fightin' words. --Golbez 20:07, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

To be sure, livermush is horrible for you (Unless perhaps you make it yourself, and can control what goes in) but in the western part of North Carolina the preference for consumption seems to be sliced and fried crisp. I guess you could eat it cold, but it'd be like eating cold sausage as far as consistency is concerned. I also happen to concur with Golbez' analysis of NC barbecue sauces; too many places here serve something with thet consistency of Texas Pete (and all the charm) and soak the pork with it. Give me a sweet style sauce on the side any day. --MalkavianX 19:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grits

Isn't grits known in the north as hominy? Or am I wrong? Should this be mentioned as a "Southern variant"? Mike H 00:21, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Hrm, I am from Florida (central Florida, not the Panhandle, and we still have some Southerners despite what some people believe..) and grits is kinda like a ground up corn product, hominy is whole corn which has been dried and treated with something, I think lye, and rehydrated. Two different things. --Ameireaganach 06:10, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In the north, grits isn't known, period. Occasionally you can buy instant grits in the grocery story; most northerners wouldn't know what to do with any other kind of grits. There is, as far as I know, no northern equivalent--unless you cound oatmeal, which is similarly yucky-looking breakfast food of the you-had-to-grow-up-on-it variety.

You can't get good fresh okra in Ohio, either. I don't know about everywhere else. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:09, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] history

i did some research on some of the histories, but I know it is not as detailed as i want it...i would welcome some help on this section! Kayellen 21:04, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think this is a very good start. I will help you later this evening. Mike H 21:09, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Picture?

Hey y'all we need a really good pic of a good ol fried chicken dinner or something (you know with greens and beans and tea and the whole nine yards. I am no good with images, think we can find someone to fix us up? Kayellen 16:58, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Someone bring a digital camera to Po'Folks! Mike H 17:01, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

MMMMMMMMM Po'Folks....I am jealous, they closed the one in Huntsville! Kayellen 17:29, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There was one in Pensacola. I don't think there are any in Tampa. There are Bob Evans restaurants here, though. That should be mentioned in the article...the advent of "fast food" Southern cuisine, like Cracker Barrel, Po'Folks, and Bob Evans. Mike H 17:54, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

You read my mind! I was just at lunch thinking about how we needed to add that to the article. I think alot of northern snowbirds get their first "taste" of southern food from places like those. Kayellen 19:22, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Used to have Po'Folks at least as far west as Texas. The one here closed years ago though. -- Cyrius|✎ 21:29, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'll bring my camera to lunch this week. Maybe I'll get lucky and we'll have something really southern. (I missed the fried chicken and mashed potatoes, though.) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:09, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] food list

Wow things are starting to come together, huh! I was looking at the japanese cuisine article and they had a list of traditional dishes. I didn't like the list before but what about putting one in? I am going to add one in a minute, see what you think. Kayellen 21:02, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Bob Evans

"To a lesser extent, the Bob Evans chain of restaurants have extended across the Midwest and East. Surprisingly enough, the key Southern states of Alabama and Georgia do not have any Bob Evans locations. "

This is probably because Bob Evans is really an Ohio chain (although it actually originated right on the southern border by West Virginia). The food is somewhat reminiscent of "proper" Southern food, lacking some of the things that are most distinctive—okra, greens, sweet potatoes, sweet tea, black-eyed peas, etc. They may occasionally have some of these things, but they aren't staples. (Although they do have fried chicken, chicken and dumplings, country fried steak...)

I've lived in Ohio for most of my life (but I was raised on Southern food) and it only just now occured to me to think of Bob Evans as Southern. They call it "homestyle". Southern Ohio does have some Southern tendancies, but it's still Ohio. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:24, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Should it be reworded or just taken out? We can afford to take it out. Mike H 01:35, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

I would say just take it out unless there are more people who think it's worth mentioning, in which case it can be added back in. (It may be. I don't know what perceptions are of Bob Evans outside of Ohio.) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:40, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Feel free to take it out...but if you can think of a better one, please add it in its place. I think we need another good example. Mike H 01:53, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

We need more photos than the Waffle House sign. The new COTW is on Sunday. The article looks pretty good, but we mos def need more pictures. Mike H 05:11, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

We need to slow down on the COTW. We have fewer people than the main COTW; maybe we should move it to every two weeks. --Golbez 16:46, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

I think two weeks is too long. Besides, then it stops being a Collaboration of the Week, doesn't it? :-/ Mike H 07:45, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

COTFortnight? :) --Golbez 16:46, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

Here's a Public Domain image of a woman preparing poke salad. I'm not sure where you would place it, but in my experience wiht featured articles having some sort of historic perspective helps. It would also help to have a picture of someone preparing a dish in additon to a picture of the finished staple dish like fried chicken. -JCarriker 16:58, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pie

I'm not a native, but I like pie. What is shoo fly pie? Maurreen 03:32, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• It is an old time pie that is made from Molases. They call it Shoo fly because when they used to set them out to cool someone had to sit with it to keep the flies away because it smelled so sweet. (maybe you catch more flies with shoo fly pie than with vinegar :P ) Kayellen 14:21, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• I editted shoofly pie out of the article. As a person of Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry with a deep interest in that culture, I feel that shoofly pie is out of place listed amung "traditionally southern pies"... Shoofly pie is of Pennsylvania Dutch origin, and nearly all of my Southern friends have never heard of shoofly pie before. PAdutch 05:36, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] What about the English?

The page lists the most important influences on Southern cuisine... What about the English? The settlers of the South were English protestants, and up to the Civil War era immigration to the South was very minimal, meaning that the white population is or at least was predominantly Anglo-Saxon. Surely they, as the base population, must have had the largest influence of any group? PAdutch 06:08, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Amos

The article mentions Famous Amos. Is there another Famous Amos aside from the cookie company (which is nationwide, LA-based, and not southern)? -- Kaszeta 21:47, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Famous Amos is also the name of a Southern restaurant chain. Apparently it only exists in northern Florida. I was born and raised on those things and I thought it was bigger than that. Mike H 23:31, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New to Wikipedia

Hi there. I'm very new to Wikipedia and am looking for a place I can contribute. Since I've lived all my 50 years in the "Deep South" and have a great interest in the varied cuisines, I think I may be able to contribute to this article. I do question some of the statements in the third paragraph regarding the origins of deep fat frying and would like to research that some more. Also, food preservation methods play a large role in the development of regional Southern cuisines.

Could I have a go at further developing this topic? I'm unsure exactly how to begin and don't want to risk stepping on toes my first try. Thanks for any feedback. NanaLana 20:25, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

Okay, I hope someone is watching this page. I propose to move this to Cuisine of the U.S. Southern states, its proper name. The adjective form (Southern) shouldn't come first, and the convention is almost always to have it this way. Objections? --Dmcdevit 01:10, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. regions is about to change its suggested article titles for regions. Under the new guidilines Cuisine of the Southern United States, would be more apropriate as the region will be moved to Southern United States under the proposed guidlines. -JCarriker 01:33, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

Oh. In fact, I thought that was a better name, but only checked out the region article to see what the convention was, and saw the "US". I agree with Cuisine of the Southern United States. --Dmcdevit 01:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page Move

According to new policy approved by Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. regions this page should be moved to Cuisine of the Southern United States, its main article has already been moved to its new title. Thanks. -JCarriker 12:34, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead. Actually this was discussed before but no one got around to doing the change. --Dmcdevit 23:14, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Soul Food?

I'm not sure I understand the motivations behind removing the blurb about soul food in this latest edit. I suppose I could see how it might offend a sensitive individual, but it definitely goes along with my observations growing up in rural North Carolina. --MalkavianX 19:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I took out one sentence that was misplaced in a paragraph about regional differences. The topic is fully covered in its own subsection. I certainly did not remove anything to avoid offending someone. However, this article is not of good quality overall, is poorly referenced, and full of opinion. -THB 21:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)