Talk:Cuisine of Singapore

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To what extent is Singaporean cuisine different from Malay cuisine, and are such differences much more remarkable than the differences among the varieties of Malay cuisine in different parts of Malaysia? Many thanks. — Insta ntnood 16:40, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

It is apparant you need to buy an airline ticket, fly here, and educate yourself on food in this area. Meanwhile, you dont need to actually insist that one variation is bigger than another to call it a different cuisine, because since when can you quantify culinary differences, unless you can educate us on this? If not, please just buy that plane ticket.--Huaiwei 17:42, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The article mentions very briefly about the connection between Singaporean and Malay cuisine, and I am curious to know a bit more. Would you help? :-) — Insta ntnood 18:03, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Its futile. This is not your first time in asking the same question over and over despite repeated explanations, and if anything, your mocked ignorance is soaked to the bone with hypocricy. As I said, buy that plane ticket like your more well-informed pals have done. If that is beyond your financial means, even a simple search done online would have answered a question as basic as this. Your lethagy and your attempt to disrupt wikipedia is hardly worth anyone's efforts to expend and waste much energy on you.--Huaiwei 18:15, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A wild idea suddenly popped up in my mind: why don't we compare Chinese cuisine in different styes?...something like chop suey in American style, Fujian fried rice in Japanese style, fishball in Singaporean style, barbecued pork bun in Filipino style, wonton in Thai style...though quite of a castle in the air, the project could be fun and yum! :-P -- Jerry Crimson Mann 18:27, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Haha....and how shall we embark on this project? :D--Huaiwei 18:49, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In fact I never agree cultural aspects, including cuisines, are defined by political boundary (tho political boundaries is very often one of factors). — Insta ntnood 18:47, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Well, then thats where you need to check your own edits. Lets get rid of all those attempts to enforce the HK boundary, shall we?--Huaiwei 18:49, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Is there anything to do with the boundary of Hong Kong? — Insta ntnood 19:20, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

(response to Huaiwei's comment at 18:15, Jun 11) Seems like you're always trying to get too personal in a conversation. I'd appreciate if anybody other than Huaiwei is going answer my question. — Insta ntnood 18:43, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Why of coz, my dear. People who show alot of personal affiliation (I dont get alot of people checking my "user contributions" page day in day out, you know?) should get it in return, dont you think? Thats how loving couples stay together to their death bed, I would have tot so. :D--Huaiwei 18:51, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I also suggest that Instantnood come here for a visit and enjoy himself or herself. Meantime we can also compare Cuisine of Singapore and Cuisine of Malaysia to see the difference. Historically, it makes sense: the two regions were splitted since WW2 (with merger for a short period in 1960s). Many things, including demographics, cuisine and eating habits, have changed alot since then and evolved differently in the two regions. If you are tracing it back to "ancient cuisine" then of course they may have common roots, but nothing is ancient in Singapore and the article is not focusing on "ancient cuisine". Political boundary is not the only factor, but it is a factor. We haven't add the bakery stuff yet in Cuisine of Singapore, but there are many (new) bakery items unique in Singapore. This article needs further collaborative effort, so give us more time to expand and organize. Jerry Crimson Mann has some great ideas and can certainly contribute to these articles. Singapore fishball is worthy of special mention. :-) -- Vsion 18:56, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The time that I've spent in Singapore is quite short, but I can imagine the differences that come with long period of separation. In contrast I cannot quite understand why Huaiwei has kept trying to downplay the identity of Hong Kong, despite he knows pretty well how long Hong Kong had not been part of China, contact between the people of the two places during that period, and how the current situation is like.

The queries that I started on this talk page is a general enquiry, and I am not, at the time being, challenging if Singaporean cuisine is a cuisine or tradition on its own right, so please don't get too alert and guess my intention, and not discussing on the question. Thanks. — Insta ntnood 19:20, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

And so you are saying you have tried to be an irritant because of your impressions of my view on HK-China affairs? Well this confirms it. You obviously suffer from an identity crisis, and/or have problems with your self-confidence. If your over-zealous attempts to distinguish HK from the rest of China is met with resistence, then be aware that your views needs to be reassessed on the regional and global context, and not merely by your believe that local HK's views are all that matters.

Meanwhile, you being here in Singapore for a shorttime is obviously not enough. Have you been to Malaysia? Indonesia? Thailand? If you have not, then how in the world could you tell the difference? Oh, and I simply could not care less what your intentions are. I gave you the response I think you deserve, and yes, it seems like no one is willing to do the research you should be doing yourself too. :D --Huaiwei 19:33, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Whao! Never realised that food could be for historical thought! I like the writing approach proposed by Vsion, and I wish I could see that spectacular page one day! :D *looking-forwardly*

I've been to Singapore once, and I tasted the Singaporean fishball in some street hucksters (or something like that). I found that, despite similar ingredients, the fishball was totally different from its counterparts in Chiuchow style, or in Hong Kong style (e.g. curry-flavoured). So I think there's in fact loads to write about the Singaporean cuisine; time and patience are needed as well, though. :) Btw, I'm going to write an article about Dai pai dong, a characteristical tented street restaurant of a kind in Hong Kong, since I've some secondary source in hand right now -- from 11/6's Sing Tao Daily and HK Magazine, with some unexpected historical anecdotes! *Eureka* Maybe you can also pen something about the street eating culture in Singapore, which I, as a foreigner, observed in your country. ;-D

Btw, dare not go to Indonesia...they do discriminate against Chinese, don't they? I did see some pics about the anti-Chinese campaign in that country--they're disgusting! Well, I've been to the other two countries that you've stated. Chill out! :)-- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:47, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ney...its not as bad in Indonesia as imagined. :D I am more worried about being caught too close with caucasians! :D--Huaiwei 20:03, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

(response to Huaiwe's comment at 19:33, Jun 11) You're getting too far, and all these have nothing to do with Singaporean cuisine. It is my privacy where I have been to, and that's does not affect how one would respond to the very first question on this page. It's interesting to learn that I need (an) air ticket(s) if I want to ask a question on Wikipedia tho. — Insta ntnood 19:56, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Oh friends, where have you hidden your WikiLove? Personal attack and disrespect are not certainly the best way of communication. Instandnood, to be honest, I think you're sometimes too firm on your own stance; why not taking a little step backward and listen to the others' opinions? :) Nothing would be lost anyhow. Huaiwei, I don't buy your rub-it-in approach to your "foe"; I don't think that Instantnood is that...well...that bad. Just drop off those sarky words, turning them into amazing smiling grins!

Wikipedia is really a marvellous place, in where people from miles apart can share their ideas, appreicate other's cultures, and, moreover, have a better understanding to our home, the Earth. It would be a pity, likewise shame, to ignite meaningless yet destructive arguments merely due to small differences of point of views. Let bygones be bygones, eh? :-D -- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:18, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hey Jerry I'm already not taking any stance in the discussion here on this page. I'd better keeps my hands off the topics if there's clue that Huaiwei would likely be interested in. :-) — Insta ntnood 19:23, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

(response to Huaiwei's comment at 18:51, Jun 11) That's not an excuse to go too personal in discussions. I check the contributions of many people, and obviously you're not the only one. Don't feel like uncomfortable about it. Activities on Wikipedia are always open and public. — Insta ntnood 19:20, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Then that is an odd habit of yours you jolly well stop if you want to build a better environment for discussions. I made it quite clear I dislike being tailgated by you, and I will make my displeasure felt if you refuse to back off. It is quite obvious that I do not consider your behavior as "loving". It is downright intimidating and a violation of my privacy and personal space.--Huaiwei 19:33, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Edit history on Wikipedia is one's privacy and personal space? Interesting. To repeat, I check contribution history of many people, and you're not the only one. (I don't think you're not a VIP, are you? :-D ) — Insta ntnood 19:56, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Well, as we can all see, you obviously have no intentions to back off. Then let it be. ;) --Huaiwei 20:03, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Apology: I was only intending to get an answer, and I did not expect Huaiwei would have joined in this way and made the conversation ended up as such. I'd like to apologise for inconvenience and trouble that my question might have caused. — Insta ntnood 19:56, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Oh of coz you need to apologise. Whether your hypocritical apology is accepted is another story. --Huaiwei 20:03, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wish you luck, sandboy. :-) --Jerry Crimson Mann 20:30, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There are subtle differences to the variety of dishes, and some dishes are not available in Malaysia. For instance, the laksa in Singapore is different from that of Malaysia, specifically that from Penang. Some dishes are unique to Singapore, like Chilli crab and Black Pepper Crab. In Malaysia certain local dishes are located in specific towns and cities. Mandel 20:41, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

1 National dish?
2 Multi-ethnic inspired food
3 cultural relevance as well as the food itself
4 Improvements
5 Kikapoo as a Singapore drink?

[edit] National dish?

We should submit a Singapore entry for national dish. Any nomination? -- Vsion 00:19, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Er.....the closet candidate seems to be Hainanese Chicken Rice? :D--Huaiwei 29 June 2005 05:49 (UTC)

Seconded. Two votes to none; that's a landslide majority! --Vsion 29 June 2005 06:21 (UTC)

Hahaha....this is "unanimous"?? :D--Huaiwei 29 June 2005 06:34 (UTC)

Not sure how many of you got the print edition of the ST yesterday, but there is a super wonderful NDP special, in which there is an article on the above. It recalls that ST survey in which over 50% of respondants chose Hainanese Chicken Rice as Singapore's national dish, with Chili Crabs a distant second and Char Kuey Tiao coming in third. We did right! :D --Huaiwei 07:17, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Multi-ethnic inspired food

Currently, the section "dishes" is divided into "chinese inspired", "Malay inspired", ... etc. Some dishes have problems, such as Satay bee hoon, fish head curry and tauhu goreng as they are clearly influenced by more than one ethnic groups. Also I'm not sure if "mee goreng" should be under "Malay inspired" because it used to be prepared mainly by Indians, the yellow noodle is chinese inspired but the common name is in Malay. Should we add another sub-section "Multi-ethnic inspired" for these dishes? -- Vsion 00:18, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps we should follow the style of Cuisine of Malaysia - they classify it along with stuff like beef dishes, chicken dishes, etc. so we could classify it along with stuff like "curries" , "noodles", "fusion hybrids" (this has to be recent though), and stuff like that, and note its origins in the description. -- Natalinasmpf 00:51, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In Cuisine of Malaysia, the ingredients are organized by poultry, seafood, fruits, etc; however the dishes are also organized by ethnicity, similar to Cuisine of Singapore. We can use it as a guide and add a section on ingredients as well. I guess a sub-section on "Cross ethnic inspired" or "fusion hybrids" should be added for dishes like fish head curry. Any amendment with a better title for this sub-section is welcomed. -- Vsion 07:19, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I knew this would be raised when I first subdivided them by "inspiration". :D It wasent easy in actual fact, to split them this way, and even Hainanese Chicken Rice is not what it is without Malay influence! How about we create a table for this, list them by alphabetical order, and to add a column which lists vatrious cultures which many have contributed to the creation of that dish?--Huaiwei 29 June 2005 05:48 (UTC)

You are a "table"-guy, haha ... Some issues: (i) shall we include Thai's influence (for mee siam, etc)? (ii) shall we split chinese into Hokkien, cantonese, teochew, etc.? These issues aside, I think your suggestion will work. For cuisine articles, this could be revolutionary! :-) Vsion 29 June 2005 08:57 (UTC)

Haha...I somehow like tables ever since I mastered to art of creating them. :D And yes, we should attempt to point out the dialect group/cuisine which influenced each dish where possible. Hainanese Chicken Rice in Singapore is a fusion of Hainese and Cantonese influences, plus that dash of chili which is obviously Southeast Asian!--Huaiwei 30 June 2005 09:11 (UTC)

Hi there! You know what, there will be a TV programme talking about Singaporean cuisine this week here in Hong Kong. I think I'm gonna watch to know more about the food of you guys. *yum* :) Btw, is Char kway teow also known as "炒貴刁"? If yes, I'd like to add this name to the article as well. :-D -- Jerry Crimson Mann 29 June 2005 12:03 (UTC)

Hi Jerry, did you notice the red link of Chinese sausage in Char kway teow? Is there an article on it already that I may have missed, maybe some spelling like lap cheong? It is used in quite a number of dishes and deserved an article itself. :-) -- Vsion 30 June 2005 06:31 (UTC)

Oooo...so you are the one who added 炒貴刁...haha. I really have not heard of it thou, so I cant comment. How did you find that?--Huaiwei 30 June 2005 09:11 (UTC)

O yes...this is a very typical Chinese cuisine that we all've missed! Let's see if anyone else can pen the masterpiece~ ;-) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 30 June 2005 07:42 (UTC)

TV show on Singaporean cuisine? Great, evidence of notability! please watch it and contribute. Also the Hongkong author Cai Lan has written quite a bit about Singapore food and with pretty good prose too. Maybe we can "copy" some content from his essays. --Vsion 30 June 2005 09:57 (UTC)

Well the series talk about food all around, from town to town, from city to city. The programme has been shown for months. :-D — Insta ntnood June 30, 2005 10:24 (UTC)

But the fact that it is a show on Singaporean cuisine and not "Malaysian-Singaporean" cuisine tells you that you onviously need to learn quite abit from the programme. :D --Huaiwei 30 June 2005 11:44 (UTC)

Right.. but they talk about the food and drink of a city or a town each week... :-) — Insta ntnood 12:25, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Come on, don't rub on it. We are talking about food here, not as rigid as a military orbat. Please stick to constructive comments and move on. -- Vsion 13:02, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Right.. thanks Vsion. :-) — Insta ntnood 13:30, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] cultural relevance as well as the food itself

Well, perhaps we need some more expansion (then we need to start making headings :D) about its cultural relevance, since we only have a few paragraphs at the moment that just makes bare coverage. Like the fact that its a regular phenomenon for hordes of students to just arrive at hawker centres and eat because of the low prices ;-)...as opposed to the much lesser group of customers at restaraunts. In fact, we need an article on La Pa Sat, but I don't know how to start. Basically, something is missing from this article, but I don't know just what. Bear in mind this is being paraphrased by not just Culture of Singapore but Tourism in Singapore now.

Further thought: part of what's missing: we fail to cover that yes, Singaporeans eat at McDonalds and fast food, as well as their native cuisine, and all the other foreign influences we bring in. So far it's mainly about the cultural diffusion to form things like roti prata or combined Chinese-Malay dishes, etc. while that's a huge component it's not the only one. -- Natalinasmpf 23:40, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Talking about phenomenon, there is this familiar coffee shop scene where the assistant would shout the orders for teh and kopi across the kopi tiam. E.g. the "big" guy at Blk 28, Dover, used to do that very well with pretty good lung capacity. Does this deserve mentioning? Even PM Loong talked about this abit during the NDP rally. --Vsion 04:01, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

You live near Dover? That's pretty close to me. Real close, heh. Well, I'm not sure if it exactly deserves mentioning, but I get a writer's block on how to describe our attitude to cuisine...as in "a national past time" is way too general. -- Natalinasmpf 04:15, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Improvements

The article is quite fine now, but we need improvements here. Like what S'poreans' eat usually what type of food can be found in Singapore. Uniqueness of the cuisine, I really feel that all these can be improved. Deciding on the quality of the article, we can do some research and this article will be much better. --Terence Ong ^Talk 09:50, 4 January 2006 (UTC)