Talk:Crumple zone

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] The first car with Crumple zones was not the Ponton

Randroide 18:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Safety Cell: The idea of a "safe" rigid cell surrounded by softer "crumple zones" to protect people in a crash came from Bela Barenyi, a hero of car safety who worked as an engineer for Mercedes-Benz. The idea was patented in 1951 and went into production in 1959 on the "fintail" series.[1].

In 1952, Mercedes-Benz engineer Bela Barenyi obtained a patent for his crumple zone – an invention first phased into a production Mercedes in 1959[2].

Fintails prodction started in 1959.

I am going to delete the erroneous Ponton reference.

I recently read an article by one of the men behind the 1946 Saab 92001 where it said it was designed with crumple zones. But then I have also read that it din't have crumple zones and SAAB would intriduce crumple zones with the 1968 Saab 99. It may ofcourse be a sliding scale. // Liftarn

I think that the Saab 92001 history is a bit unlikely: Bela Barenyi patented the concept in 1952 [3]. Moreover: The Saab car was developed in very difficult post-war conditions. I can not imagine those Saab designers giving thought to something as esoteric (in the 1940´s) as passive safety. On the other hand, the shape of the Saab body is so modern, su futuristic (...and so beautiful), that I doubt Saab engineers had enough spare creative juices to think about a crumple zone. Thank you for the Randroide 11:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

That wouldn't be the first time someone patent something that already exist. What "difficult post-war conditions"? According to the articls the main problems were that they were aircraft engineers and there was some problems sourcing the sheet metal for the production. Thet they thought about passive safety is obvious, but most sources say they did it as in an aircraft design and aircrafts don't have crumple zones (but they are designed to keep the crew safe in event of an accident). I'll dig up the article and re-read it. // Liftarn

The reason the 92 didn't have a boot lid and the rear window is so small was to strenghten the design (Liftarn). It´s true!!!. So you had to load the trunk using the passenger doors!!!. I assume this was the only production car in the world with this design (Randroide)

Could you please point to the "obvious" passive safety traits in the Saab 92001?. This is very interesting, and new for me. Please try to locate that article. Mercedes-Benz got all the kudos for the crumple zones, but, who knows, maybe we have a swedish Alexander Lodygin to the Edison that could be Bela Barenyi.Randroide 16:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I found a source that the 92 had the first safety cage in a production car[4]. The reason the 92 didn't have a boot lid and the rear window is so small was to strenghten the design. But as I said, it's a bit of a sliding scale. It wasn't until the 96 that SAAB actually reinforced the passenger compartment with steel beams. // Liftarn

OK. I finally located this Saab in my radar... it´s the prototype for the Saab 92!!!. The article you linked is very interesting: It is always a pleasure to know what was the thinking of the men making an industrial design. But... a "safety cage" and a reinforced roof is NOT a "crumple zone". Is this the article you were talking about?. If not, I beg you to locate the article talking about crumple zones.

Project leader Gunnar Ljungstrom said at the time: "If this car's shape can save 100 litres of fuel a year, it will have been worth making it look like a frog."

LOL. This quote should be immortalized!!!. Thank you, Liftarn. Randroide 09:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I love so much the quote that I created this [5].Randroide 09:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Funny! Anyway, I located the passage of the article (the article is En katt bland hermelinerna eller Hurledes grunden lades till SAABs bilproduktion vid flygmaskinfabriken, by Hans Osquar Gustavsson and Sigvard Lenngren in Bakrutan 4-2006). It says "Hållfasthetsfolk från den ordinarie hållfasthetsavdelningen medverkade tidigt i det ordinarie konstruktionsarbetet och ställdes inför litet ovanliga arbetsuppgifter. Här gällde det att beräkna karossens vridstyvhet och deformationszoner." (rough translation: "Solid mechanics people from the ordinary solid mechanics department participated early on in the regular construction work and faced somewhat unusual tasks. They had to calculate the torsional strenght of the bodywork and deformation zones.") // Liftarn

[edit] The need for crumple zones

Why no mention of the need for crumple zones as a way to absorb impacts because autobodies are lighter now due to emission and fuel consumption requirements? I'm sure a vehicle built like a brick outhouse and knowledge of deformation control (ok I know, crumple zones :) ) would be far safer than the lightweight disposable vehicles running around today. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.175.181.148 (talk • contribs).

So you are saying a car built like a brick would be safer? // Liftarn

[edit] Incorrect picture

Randroide 19:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC) This is not a proper picture for the concept "crumple zone", because the crumple zones of this Mercedes had not been activated: Note the intact bumper.

[edit] Smart (automobile)

The Smart has a small crumple zone [6]. There´s a common misconception about this car having no crumple zones. I deleted the erroneous line created by me. Randroide 12:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)