Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion

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[edit] Read this before proposing new criteria

Contributors frequently propose new criteria for speedy deletion. If you have a proposal to offer, please keep a few guidelines in mind:

  1. The criterion should be objective: an article that a reasonable person judges as fitting or not fitting the criterion should be similarly judged by other reasonable people. Often this requires making the rule very specific. An example of an unacceptably subjective criterion might be "an article about something unimportant."
  2. The criterion should be uncontestable: it should be the case that almost all articles that can be deleted using the rule, should be deleted, according to general consensus. If a rule paves the path for deletions that will cause controversy, it probably needs to be restricted. In particular, don't propose a CSD in order to overrule keep votes that might otherwise occur in AfD. Don't forget that a rule may be used in a way you don't expect if not carefully worded.
  3. The criterion should arise frequently: speedy deletion was created as a means of decreasing load on other deletion methods such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion and Wikipedia:Proposed deletion. But these other methods are often more effective because they treat articles on a case-by-case basis and incorporate many viewpoints; CSD exchanges these advantages for the practical goal of expeditious, lightweight cleanup. If a situation arises rarely, it's probably easier, simpler, and more fair to delete it via one of these other methods instead. This also keeps CSD as simple and easy to remember as possible.
  4. The criterion should be nonredundant: if an admin can accomplish the deletion using a reasonable interpretation of an existing rule, just use that. If this application of that rule is contested, consider discussing and/or clarifying it. Only if a new rule covers articles that cannot :be speedy deleted otherwise should it be considered.

If you do have a proposal that you believe passes these guidelines, please feel free to propose it on this discussion page. Be prepared to offer evidence of these points and to refine your criterion if necessary. Consider explaining how it meets these criteria when you propose it. Do not, on the other hand, add it unilaterally to the CSD page.

Oft referenced pages

Contents


[edit] Clarification on CSD A5

CSD A5 for transwikied articles reads, in part "Any article that has been discussed at Articles for Deletion (et al),..." (emphasis added), while the "Used for" entry in the deletion templates table reads merely "Transwikification completed." I've been told that even dictdef-type articles must go through AfD first, but these entries can easily lead one to believe otherwise. I couldn't find anything in the archives, but can any "oldtimer" here clarify what the vague "et al" is meant to include? Askari Mark (Talk) 05:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Other *FD processes; probably MFD is the only relevant one. The original wording can be seen at Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/10. —Cryptic 05:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Cryptic. Think anyone would mind if I made the "et al" a little more explicit? Askari Mark (Talk) 18:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maintenance categories

How to stop a maintenance category from being speedy deleted if it happens to be empty for more than four days? Jogers (talk) 10:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Note somewhere on the page that it is a maitenance category, and should not be speedy deleted just because it's empty. -Amarkov moo! 05:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Done. Thanks. Jogers (talk) 10:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images with unknown copyright status

All the images in Category:Uploader unsure of copyright status have a very polite tag {{Don't know}} which states that an experienced editor should help the uploader. Does that actually happen? All the uploaders get a message from Orphanbot and the image gets deleted if nothing changes in 7 days. Which usually is good since it's almost all copied from some website anyway. Should the tag be changed since now perhaps some uploaders are waiting for help, which doesn't arrive. It seems impossible almost to help them all since there always so many images without a copyright status/source or license tag. Garion96 (talk) 13:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

In my experience, most people don't even notice. And in any case, if someone asked me to delete such a deleted image and help them sort out the copyright, I would. Deletion isn't that big a deal. But on the other hand, feel free to reword the tag if it bugs you. :) Mangojuicetalk 14:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, (1) the template adds {{no source}} so the image gets deleted pretty quickly and (2) the category is not time sorted. When I've selected random images in that category, I mostly get old (uploaded in February) ones that have already been orphaned and I just get discouraged. If the category were date-sorted like Category:Orphaned fair use images, et. al., I would be much more inclined to work there.
I looked at MediaWiki:Licenses, but I don't know how date-sorting would work the current system. Can you subststitute a template in a substituted template? I'm not sure I know. I'll try. If anyone feels motivated to do it (you'll probably be faster than me) feel free to go ahead. --Iamunknown 05:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
If you type {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>some_template}} in a template, then the some_template will be substed when the containing template is substed. --ais523 10:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User Page Deletion

An anonymous IP nominated User:LymanSchool for deletion claiming that it is spam. Is this Legal? And if it is not can I (a non admin) remove the speedy deletion tag? -Mschel 22:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the speedy deletion tags from both User:LymanSchool and User talk:LymanSchool. These tags clearly did not apply to those pages, and there was no edit summary explaining why they had been added. —Remember the dot (t) 23:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. But G11 can apply to user pages, if they are really advertisements. Mangojuicetalk 15:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, okay. —Remember the dot (t) 16:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Qualify for G10?

This page was created as an attack page that would qualify for G10 (likely a recreation of Rooper after CSD G10) and there are still traces of it left. There were no additions that don't qualify for G10. Additionally, I can't find any references to this being an actual word. Should this be G10 or prod/AfD for neologism or whatever it is? Squids'and'Chips 00:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template suggestion for G4

I have a request for someone who knows what they're doing with templates - is there any chance that the default G4 speedy template can automatically generate a link to the corresponding AfD that it's noting? --badlydrawnjeff talk 12:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with "db|reason" template

In the {{db|reason}} template, the "reason" is currently garbling some of the text in the deletion notice box.

There is a sentence which is supposed to say, "Administrators, remember to check what links here, the page history (last edit), the page log, and any revisions of CSD before deletion." However, the reason, or all but the first word of it, is being inserted between the words "before" and "deletion".

You can see this illustrated on a test page I created in my user space. The "reason" used on that page is "this is being used to test the "db" template, I don't actually want it deleted now".

This results in a sentence in the box reading as follows: "Administrators, remember to check what links here, the page history (last edit), the page log, and any revisions of CSD before is being used to test the "db" template, I don't actually want it deleted now&action=delete deletion."

The source of this problem is apparently in a template which (a) is edit-protected and (b) I don't understand well enough to fix even if it wasn't edit-protected. --Metropolitan90 03:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

This is interesting. I've checked everything, I know how to check well enough, and nothing is wrong. Except that it doesn't work. Maybe some database coding was tweaked? -Amarkov moo! 03:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Found the problem; fullurl doesn't like long wpReasons. I'll try to find an exact character limit. -Amarkov moo! 03:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, so what it doesn't like is most punctuation. -Amarkov moo! 03:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Including spaces, apparently. It's got to be removed from the template now. -Amarkov moo! 03:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for R4

I've been working in requested moves, and I regularly delete redirecting talk pages attached to articles which are also redirect, provided they have no non-trivial history and no incoming links. The reason for this is that they are likely to be turned into double redirects by any subsequent page moves, and lots of people, when moving pages, don't check the "what links here" for the attendant talk page, even if they check it for the article itself.

Thus, I propose a CSD R4: "talk pages of redirects with no significant history, no incoming links, and no content other than a redirect to another talk page". What do people think? -GTBacchus(talk) 23:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

A double-redirect still points the reader to the right page even if it requires the reader make an extra click to get there. Deleting the redirect would leave the reader unable to find the final location of the page.
I have to ask, though... If the Talk page has only trivial history, why are you moving it in the first place? Leave it behind and let the moved article start fresh. Rossami (talk) 01:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I suspect you misunderstood what I said. I'm not moving talk pages with trivial histories. Let me make up an example. I move OldPage to NewPage, and then I check "what links here" to take care of the double redirects. Let's say there are three redirects that had been pointed at OldPage, Redirect1, Redirect2 and Redirect3. Those need to be fixed to point at NewPage. While doing that, I might notice that Redirect1 has a talk page, Talk:Redirect1, with no content or history other than a redirect to Talk:OldPage. This redirect is an artifact of a previous move from Redirect1 to OldPage, and it has no history still at that old location. It also has no incoming links, and nobody is going to type "Talk:Redirect1" into the search box. That talk page can be deleted without any chance of messing anyone up. Redirect1 remains, but it's talk page gets deleted, as useless.
Does this make sense now? I'm not talking about deleting anything out of article space, or deleting any redirect that has a chance of being used for anything. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's a concrete example: I just completed a move request, Parti libéral du Québec → Quebec Liberal Party. The article had been moved previously from Liberal Party of Quebec, and it already had a talk page at that time. When that move was completed, Talk:Liberal Party of Quebec was left as a redirect to Talk:Parti libéral du Québec. Now that Talk:Parti libéral du Québec has been moved to Talk:Quebec Liberal Party, all of the history is there, and Talk:Liberal Party of Quebec is left as a double redirect with no incoming links, no history, and no use to anyone. I could snap the double redirect and have Talk:Liberal Party of Quebec point at Talk:Quebec Liberal Party, or I could just delete Talk:Liberal Party of Quebec. I'm inclined to do the latter, because it's not a redirect that anybody's going to use. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Come to think of it, this might fall under G6 (housekeeping), so maybe there's no need for an R4. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, the scenario you laid out is certainly not what I thought you said. If I'm understanding correctly, I still have some concerns depending on the circumstances. Excuse me for a minute as I think "out loud". If Redirect1 existed for a significant period of time as an independent page (because, after all, it used to be a prior OldPage), discussion may have accumulated on Talk:Redirect1. Killing the redirect could make it incrementally harder for someone who had participated only in those earlier discussions to find the new location. Now, I consider it unlikely that a determined participant would bookmark a Talk page but not the article itself. And the search engine should still find ... No, retract that thought. The reliability of our search engine has been definitively shown to be insufficient when looking for specific discussion threads in the Talk space.
Running through a couple of different scenarios, I guess I don't see it as a problem. Delete them if you like under existing case G6. On the other hand, it seems like an extra housekeeping step that doesn't really add anything to the project either. Leaving them as double-redirects won't hurt anything. I wouldn't waste the time on that step, personally. Rossami (talk) 15:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, it takes me all of five seconds, since I've got all the redirects open in tabs anyway. Double redirects will eventually be detected and fixed by bots, so unneeded ones sitting around are a tiny resource drain, but not a significant one. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to watchlist a talk page and not the accompanying article - I think they come as a unit, otherwise I could see that being a problem, but I think it's ok.
It's not terribly important whether this is actually added as a CSD; it was sort of a whim that I mentioned it at all. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CSD A7 again

CSD A7 is worded differently at two places on the CSD pages:

"Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject. If the assertion is likely to be controversial or there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead."

from CSD but

No reason to think that the subject is remarkable and no claim that it is notable, to minimize the possibility of deleting articles on encyclopedic subjects., from CSWD Explanations
I suggest that the second wording is superior: the pages being listed for CSD7 are about 90% very short pages with very obviously "no reason to think the subject is re,markable" and a summary process is certainly both appropriate and necessary; the other 10% are ones where some indication of notability is given or implied, but which usually are inadequately soured to demonstrate it, and would probably be better suited to prod--perhaps one-third will be improvable, and improved during the prod. This is perhaps an easy solution for how to avoid discouraging the new editors who submit articles on probably encyclopedic subjects, but don't realize how it has to be done for WP. Changing it this was has the further advantage of not introducing new wording, just being consistent in the old. DGG 23:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rework of A7

The requirement to “assert the importance or significance of its subject” is arbitrary, and has the effect of encouraging Guiness Book of Records like claims.

A7 was based heavily on WP:N, which is seriously disputed. I am thinking that all A7 candidates should be subject to {{prod}} with explanation, followed by AfD if prod is disputed without the article's problems being fixed.

Possibly, A7 should be replaced with the criterion along the lines: “All content is completely unsourced”. To my limited observation, this seems to cover most uncontestable A7s. SmokeyJoe 12:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC) Suggestions retracted. SmokeyJoe 03:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think A7 is that closely based on WP:N. It's based on the need to delete pointless vanity pages without going through a drawn-out process. Not meeting WP:N is not the same as qualifying for A7; for that reason, I think we should avoid the word "notable" in any wording of A7. Mangojuicetalk 14:58, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
A7 is not based on WP:N at all, and in fact predates it by about a full year. Speedy deletion for unsourced articles was discussed at rejected here. >Radiant< 15:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. SmokeyJoe 03:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A7’s requirement to assert

Continuing my thoughts on disliking the encouragement to “assert”, how about, in A7, changing “does not assert” to “contains no evidence of”. I think that this doesn’t change the apparent intent, shouldn’t hinder its proper use, and properly emphasizes evidence, not assertion. Good articles contain evidence, not assertion. Also changing the second sentence (deleting “the assertion is likely to be”) The new text would read:

Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that contains no evidence of the importance or significance of its subject. If controversial, or it there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead.

SmokeyJoe 04:15, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

So what is "evidence" in your mind? If "evidence" = "sources," that's been soundly rejected already. --badlydrawnjeff talk 04:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
  1. Firstly, is there any agreement that the wording, which effectively requires (encourages?) an assertion, is at all undesirable?
  2. “soundly”? I agree that lack of sources is not sufficient for speedy deletion.
  3. In my mind, “evidence” did not need a specific definition. Evidence can be strong or weak. Even a mere assertion can be considered to be evidence. My thinking is that “contains evidence” is a better pointer to better article writing than “asserts”.

I see that the basic text of CSD A7 has been stable since 17:31, 19 July 2005 [1]. It is really about “vanity”, the misused word “notable” was intertwined at the beginning, and it appears that CSD A7 was written following a majority vote: Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/1. SmokeyJoe 06:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

  • It is the purpose of AFD to find evidence. It is the purpose of CSD to get rid of those pages for which it would be a waste of time to start looking for evidence. If an article on some person does not assert that person's significance (e.g. it says he's some twelve-year-old high schooler and that's it) then looking for evidence won't help (evidence of what, even?). >Radiant< 09:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Understood.

CSD A7 Sentence 1. How about inserting the word “even”, which to me avoids the implication the mere assertion might be good enough.

An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not even assert the importance or significance of its subject.

CSD A7 Sentence 2. There is a logical problem here. Sentence 1 establishes that there is no assertion. Sentence 2 assumes that there is one. I suggest deleting thruck-through words and inserting the bold word.

If the assertion is likely to be controversial or if there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead.

SmokeyJoe 05:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] template for CSD A5?

I don't even know where to begin to make a template, and coding and other technical things aren't really my forte. So, can someone made a db template for A5 (transwikied articles)? Natalie 03:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Already done: {{db-a5}} Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 04:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Sweet. Could this go in the sidebar where a bunch of the other db tags are? Natalie 04:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
It already is there; it is also called {{transwiki}}, which is on the desired position. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 07:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question about G4

The G4 criterion states: "This clause does not apply in user space". Does this cover articles that were moved to user space to "save" them from an AfD that resulted in a deletion? If not, does the copy have to go through its own MfD? In the past, I've had articles restored into user space through WP:DRV and was told I could not keep the article there indefinitely; this seems like a similar situation, except worse in my mind because the copying was done purposefully to circumvent the concensus to delete. Mike Dillon 17:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The advice you were given (that content can not stay in your userspace indefinitely) was correct. The userspace is a place to research and build articles when their appropriateness for the main article space is either unproven or has already been contested. If you stop working on it or if the space begins to be used in a deliberate attempt to impersonate the articlespace, the userspace version can be nominated for deletion via MfD. Speedy-deletion case G4 would not generally apply. Now, if the article were deleted from the userspace after an MfD discussion and someone reposted it, then I think that G4 would apply. But I don't think I've ever seen that happen except by one person who was indef-banned as a vandal shortly thereafter (for lots of other reasons, not merely for that edit). Rossami (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. This particular article, User:Salix alba/Cycle studies, hasn't been touched for almost a year. In my own case, it was actually just one article and I didn't end up doing anything with it; it was later incorporated into someone else's draft article for a parent topic and deleted. Mike Dillon 01:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Seeing as I was the one who removed the tag, I'd just like to clarify the criterion. Recreation within the same namespace is obvious. If an article is transferred to userspace to avoid deletion, it goes to MfD. If, after that, it is recreated again, it can use G4. Am I right? Harryboyles 05:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Only if it's recreated with substantially identical content, but yes. -- nae'blis 03:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
It's meant to make an exception for stuff that's been userfied after deletion, for an editor to continue working on the content to get it up to an includable standard. I've altered the wording to reflect that. --bainer (talk) 06:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding template names inline

Does anyone think that it would be a good idea to include the name of the respective deletion template, or at least a link to it, at the end of each criterion? This might be useful, although I can think of a very weak reason or two why it shouldn't done; mainly related to the function of WP:CSD. As an example of this, adding {{db-author}} next to G7, or perhaps <span style="font-size:80%;">[[Template:Db-author|t]]</span>. GracenotesT § 02:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Never mind about this, I think I have another idea. GracenotesT § 20:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misunderstandings of A7

I recently had a conversation on IRC with someone who appears to have rather dramatically misunderstood A7. I'm reposting anonymously because I want to focus on clarification of the rule and not put down the specific person, who is not responsible for these misunderstandings.

Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content.
(Me): You didn't read the whole thing.
that's the only part in bold, it's the only part i have to read
i figured "unremarkable" and "doesn't assert significance" were, as far as wikipedia is concerned, synonymous
And I figured "assert" meant "from a reputable source", as per WP:RS.

Suggested clarifications:

  • Clarify that the assertion of notability may be in the article itself. New, undeveloped articles are not required to be well-sourced.
  • Put does not assert the importance in bold text.
  • I would say clarify that merely unremarkable subjects can still have an assertion of notability, but I thought we already do this quite explicitly in several places. Perhaps this can be made more visible in some way.

Thanks for your consideration - and let's try not to get into a fight over repealing A7, as we'll never agree to do that. Dcoetzee 00:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

  • We definitely don't want to say that new articles aren't required to be well sourced. They are, it's just that failing that won't in itself get the article deleted. Jay32183 03:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I don't think a lot of folks who spend time reviewing new article creations would agree with you on the notion that failing the well-sourced criterion for a new article should not be translated into a justification for deletion. There are plenty of folks out there who would gleefully delete every stub article that lacks a citation on the basis that all unsourced material should be speedily deleted. I'm not among those who would do this, I'm just channeling. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

A thought that just occurred to me: It’s probably to be expected that people misunderstand things when they contain a logical confusion, as per CSD A7 2nd sentence, which I just altered. SmokeyJoe 04:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

  • This issue can be solved by looking up "assert" in a dictionary. >Radiant< 08:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It's the use (or misuse) of A7 that is sometimes a problem. The wording itself is extremely clear. --- RockMFR 03:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The misuse can be partially prevented by clearer criteria. " does not assert the importance or significance of its subject. " is no better, when there is not particularly clear indication of what importance or significance means. We will continue to get speedies when there is a two or three paragraph description of someone's career, and the question is whether or not it meets notability. Or, on the other hand: this is my elementary school. I assert it is important because it is the only school in town. . This technically meets the requirements. DGG 18:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's another, from the current list: Chris Churchill (born July 18, 1988)is the best up and coming cricketer in the U.K who will surely go on to represent his country in the fine sport." Obviously doesnt meet N, and speedied under A7, but certainly asserts notability, DGG 18:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem image uploaders removing warnings without correcting problems

I recently find some problem image uploaders removing warning notices (like no source or license) without ever correcting problems. Should the seven-day counting be from the original warnings or restarted from a new warning? As I am unsure I now give a courtresy warning rather than deleting them even though more than seven days have passed from the original warning.--Jusjih 09:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

  • I'd say use the original warning, because otherwise people can keep removing it forever. An exception can be made if a plausible reason is given for the removal. Generally such images are only used or watchlisted by their uploader, so if he chooses to ignore the warning that's his problem. >Radiant< 10:51, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I'll second that. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I'll support it as long as the tag is added back fairly quickly so subsequent editors have a reasonable chance to see and react to the tag. I would not support the interpretation that a tag on Monday at 12:01 that was removed an hour later and never replaced can justify a deletion the following Monday at 12:02. The spirit of the rule means we should make sure that the tag was visible for seven days plus or minus a bit. In my opinion, if the tag has been off for more than about a day, adjust the clock (but don't necessarily restart it). Rossami (talk) 16:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
      • If someone removes a warning, we can assume the warning was read. But if someone is repeatedly uploading images that generate warnings and constantly ignoring them, they need blocking: they may be acting in good faith but the amount of cleanup work they're necessitating is unacceptable. Mangojuicetalk 18:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
        • I'm sorry, I think I was unclear. Yes, you can assume that the removing editor (whether vandal or just clueless) read the warning. But the vandal may not have any incentive to actually fix the problem and may not be the only one using the image. The tag still needs to be in place for any good-faith third-party who is also working the page. That other person still needs a chance to be notified. Rossami (talk) 20:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
          • One assist in cases like this is the addition of the 'this image is going to be deleted' caption text to articles where the image appears. A templated caption text snippet is not included in all the deletion warning templates that are affixed to images, though. Further, actors like OrphanBot comment out the image rather than leaving it in place and adding a 'this image is going to be deleted' caption text snippet. The advantage of such an addition is that if there is some editor who feels that the image contributes substantially to the article, there is an incentive there for fixing or replacing the image in order for it to escape deletion. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commons media categorisation

Hello,

I've encountered a user who has created several categories for images as analogues to categories on the Commons based on the idea that then linking those categories to the Commons makes locating images easier, even though there is far less image content on WP and so the result is many categories for a few images; they have even begun categorising Commons media that are not even used on WP (1,2,3,4) so as to populate the hierarchy of categories created (1,2). My understanding was that we were actively in the process of moving all free images to the Commons, and so it followed that if not reducing image infrastructure on WP, we shouldn't be increasing it. After an inquiry to an admin working on image categorisation that recommended that I transwiki to the Commons any images that were on WP, and which led to deletion of one of the images, this user promptly created a page for the Commons image and again categorised it on WP. According to that sort of convention, wouldn't we have every image from the Commons categorised by their WP pages on WP, thus pretty much negating the utility of separate projects? Please advise, TewfikTalk 05:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

far less? en's image database is a little over 50% of the size of commons. there is still over 700K images.Geni 05:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I meant in this specific case, there are a minimal and fairly static number of images to which these new categories would apply, so that a small number of images had many more layers of categories than would otherwise be warranted (especially since there were often redundant categories added). TewfikTalk 06:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Image description pages for images on commons are WP:CSD I2. I think a category for the same purpose would also be a speedy delete. Whatever category the "commons category" is placed in should/could have a link to the commons category/media. A category on commons isn't a problem, if it's populated. MECU≈talk 12:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

(I've copied this over from Wikipedia talk:Images and media for deletion - I would very much appreciate a definitive answer.) TewfikTalk 22:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IMA

An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject.

Just what constitutes an assertion of notability is unclear when (as happened with Institute for Mathematics and its Applications) someone asserts that mention of a $19.5 million NSF grant constitutes an assertion of notability but the material that was in an earlier, now deleted, version is not an assertion of notability. Just what is and what is not an assertion of notability would therefore seem to depend extremely heavily on familiarity with the subject. No one familiar with the topic could have considered that article a valid candidate for speedy deletion. To treat it that way is the height of unreasonable behavior at best. The policy might as well say "If you lack an understanding of the subject so that you cannot understand the various assertions of notability that were already in the article before you saw it, then delete it without discussion and don't notify any of the people who have edited it and who do understand. Most especially, don't ask for their advice on what is considered notable in their field and what is not." Michael Hardy 23:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Michael, I wasn't involved in the deletion, but I'll say a bit about it. I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over this. There are many times when an "institute" within an establishment of higher learning is merely a handful of folks who have sufficient political clout within the institution to achieve name status. This might have been where the person who deleted the article was coming from. I can sympathize with the deleter, as most such "institutes" do not rise to the level of notability that one would desire of articles. However, it is very cavalier to delete out of hand without having proposed (or effected) merger into University of Minnesota and converted the potentially deletable article into a redirect labeled with Template:R from subtopic. Hence, though I can sympathize with the deleter in holding that the stub might not have withstood a notability test as originally created, I think the wrong action was taken, i.e. deletion wasn't warranted. It was the lazy way out, to delete the article. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New proposal for Redirects for Speedy Deletion

I was patrolling special:newpages recently, and I found a redirect that linked to a page undergoing copyright violation study. Please can someone either tell me what criterion to use in this case, or create a new criterion that can be used in this case. Is it wise to wait until the copyright violation goes through, and then request a deletion to a non-existant page, because I wish to let others know this if I am not online, or tag it with something that can lead me to do it myself. Thanks in advance! -- Casmith_789 (talk) 13:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Tagging such a page is kind-of pointless, though, because the admin who deletes the copyvio will check its what-links-here and delete redirects to it too. There's not much point in adding something like this to the speedy criteria either, as it'll be covered by 'redirect to a nonexistent page' when its traget is deleted. And if it's target is despeedied (say it isn't a copyvio), the redirect probably shouldn't be deleted either. --ais523 14:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
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