Talk:Cracker (pejorative)

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Contents 1 Old discussion archived 2 Unsourced info 3 Sourced material/Harold Ford Sr. 4 British(?) usage 5 Citations missing tag 6 Cracker Party 7 All this talk of Crackers ...... 8 What are "niggorz" please? 9 I thought... 10 Discussion of Etymology and Folk Etymology 11 Whipping

[edit] Old discussion archived

Old discussion has been archived and may be accessed in the box at the right. -THB 20:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced info

Moving to talk page until its sourced:

Other possible theories include references to cracking a whip over oxen when driving to market, the 18th century practice of cracking corn to make liquor, or to poor whites having had to crack their grain because they couldn't afford to take it to the local mill to have it ground.^{[citation needed]}

A popular etymology claims the term cracker originated from piney-woods Georgia and Florida pastoral yeomen's use of whips to drive cattle. The word then came to be associated with the cattlemen of Georgia and Florida. Cattlemen of the state of Florida (and some native born Floridians) take pride in being called "crackers", "Florida Crackers", or "Cracker Cowboys". The Cracker culture included using the bullwhip as a form of communication between cattle drivers, using "Cracks" and pauses to send messages.^{[citation needed]}

A false or folk etymology claims the term dates back to slavery in the antebellum South. Many slaver foremen used bullwhips to terrorize African slaves, and the sound the whip made when it was used as a weapon was called 'cracking' the whip. The foremen who cracked these whips were thus known as 'crackers'. [1]

ThanksJasper23 09:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sourced material/Harold Ford Sr.

Properly sourced material should not be removed without discussion. -THB 02:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The first source is from an opinion page. Sure, whatever. Put someones opinion in as a cite. However, the you tube cite just wont fly. Its more than likely that he said tracker and not cracker. Otherwise its original research and pov. This is an attack on a living person without substantiated proof, just conjecture.

In October 2006, a Fox news camera captured Harold Ford, Sr. using the term on a cellphone outside the Senatorial campaign headquarters of his son, Harold Ford, Jr. (Video)

Jasper23 02:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Sir, you are correct and I apologize. Even the man he said it to said he said "tracker". The two videos are here: [2] -THB 02:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Can we say "whitewash?" Dubc0724 13:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Can we say "fact checking?" You should give it a try sometime and then retract your whitewash statement. I would venture to guess that you probably wont. Jasper23 19:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

At the time, nobody was backing up his "tracker" claim. I still don't buy it (kinda like "botched joke") having listened to the clip. But it's really inconsequential at this point. Moving on... Dubc0724 14:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Whatever. Did you read the article linked above? Did you read how all the news networks retracted their claims and how the original instigator of the claim admitted that he was wrong? Probably not. But you still chose to be rude anyway. Great job there. Jasper23 16:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. Dubc0724 21:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't buying it either. But there is a link above in my apology post that even shows the tracker/cracker guy saying that Ford Sr. said "tracker". -THB 19:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British(?) usage

"Crackers" (always in the plural) is a fairly common, though perhaps now slightly old-fashioned, insult in British English, meaning something close to "loony", and with the same level of usually quite mild insult. For example: "He wants to walk to London? The man's clearly crackers!" I have no idea of the etymology, but it has no racist overtones whatever, the racist term being unknown in the UK except where imported from America. Loganberry (Talk) 03:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

It is understood, but not often used, in the U.S. in the same manner. -THB 04:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations missing tag

User THB and I have recently disagreed on whether this article has sufficient references. I've read through the article, and it appears editors have made a successful effort to make sure that majority of the content is scrupulously sourced.

According to THB's recent edit summary, the article "still has many controversial unsourced statements." Many? Really? Besides the lone statement curently marked with the "fact" tag (the part about cracker being similar to redneck, which hardly strikes me as controversial, or even debatable), what specifically are the unsourced statements that we must correct before the tag can be removed? I would love to address "the underlying problem," but I need help identifying precisely what the problem is.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 15:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. -THB 15:28, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cracker Party

Rather than cluttering up the article any more than it already is, please see the two references which clearly identify Roy Harris as both the leader of the Augusta "Cracker Party", former speaker of the house for the State of Georgia, and a former state Democratic Convention floor leader. He was also a well known segregationalist.

http://www.stetsonkennedy.com/jim_crow_guide/chapter7_2.htm

http://www.amazon.com/phrase/Roy-Harris —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Omnivore Oprah (talk • contribs) 21:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

You have violated the 3rr rule and will be reported. Your argument on the talk page makes little sense. Jasper23 21:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It only fails to make sense to you. --REMOVED PERSONAL ATTACK-- Omnivore Oprah 21:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that was very rude. Jasper23 21:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] All this talk of Crackers ......

makes me want to eat soup. (NitaReads 03:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] What are "niggorz" please?

The text reads: "Crackin' Good Snacks (a division of Winn Dixie, a Southern grocery chain) has sold niggorz similar to Ritz crackers under the name "Georgia Crackers"."

I see plurals changed all the time in this manner by kids on the internet or playing gamez(!). Quite obviously this 'usage' of English does not belong in an encyclopedia. --Mal 11:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Er, the only thing you see wrong was the plural? It was a bit of childish racist vandalism; I've reverted it, and blocked the idiot who did it. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I thought...

I thought the term came from the fact that white people's skins was similar in color to saltines, hence the name crackers. Adamv88 02:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of Etymology and Folk Etymology

Ok, I'm game let's discuss. Bierstube Katzen Keller 23:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whipping

I highly doubt the term cracker has anythign to do with whipping. Does it really make sense to insult someone by calling them something that still puts you in an inferior position? That defies all the rules of name calling, insulting and hatred. Historically, it refers to poor whites in the south who could only afford to eat crackers. Same as lintheads or clay-eaters. Rich whites used cracker as well as blacks who were in a better economic position than the poor whites. I will look into those 3 seemingly bogus references listed because I HIGHLY doubt that slavemaster stuff is the correct etymology. research time! --Yellowfiver 09:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I notice that after posting this you must have found issue with the references, because you deleted large passages of the text. For reference, here are the passages from the books used as reference there:

• Smitherman: "possibly derived from the sound of the master's whip during enslavement."
• Herbst: "It has been said to derive ... from the whip-cracking done by slaveholders."
• Major: "..a reference to the whip-cracking slaveholder..

How did you find these lacking to support the existence of this theory? - O^O 23:38, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure, there just seems to be an inherent contradiction in that etymology of the word. I'm at my school's library so I'll check these sources. If they match up, I guess i won't have a case. I had always been under the impression lintheads, clayeaters, and crackers were from around the same time period. --Yellowfiver 02:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

One thing I didn't write above; this doesn't appear to be a case where the etymology is known with certainty, instead there are multiple theories. I want to make sure that section represents all the theories, I'm not claiming that one in particular is correct. - O^O 05:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Unlike some of the other etymologies, I can't find a single source connecting the name "cracker" to whipping slaves that was written prior to the 20th century. This is why many call it a Folk Etymology. Can anyone find a verifiable source which dates before 1870? Thanks. Bierstube Katzen Keller 00:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)