Talk:Counties of Ireland

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All of the various counties appear to be in articles of the form "County Name", which I don't think is the usual nomenclature here on Wikipedia. I'm thinking of moving them all to "Name County" instead, or just "Name." Any objections or other comments? Bryan 00:29, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

  • "County XXXX" is the usual way of referring to Counties in Ireland. - Nunh-huh 00:30, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Ah. No moves, then. :) Bryan 00:49, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Alphabetical list

I'm of the opinion that this list is redundant, and just sits looking ugly and taking up space.

Administrative regions are already discussed and detailed above the table, former names are discussed below. There's a full list of counties beside the map. There's only a small amount of information relatively speaking (evidenced by the amount of blank cells), so I view the table as unnecessary.

zoney ▓   ▒ talk 19:32, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Agreed, its better to have a general discussion in the article on history rather than a table which is just a lot of air! Djegan 19:45, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] A paragraph explaining why in Ireland it's "county name"

It'd be nice if someone could add a paragraph to Counties of Ireland explaining why, contrary to everywhere else (e.g. in the US: "Middlesex county", etc.), in Ireland the word county comes first (e.g. "county Cork").

It's just the way it is. And we were first :-). I do not think any explanation is necessary. Just accept it as yet another difference between the countries. zoney ♣ talk 17:56, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Well it could be for example the influence of the Irish language, I don't know. Everything's got an explanation. For example if I were asked to explain the British or U.S. order I would say: "in languages were the (determinative) adjective precedes the noun (such as English) a noun which limits (determines) another noun normally comes first", hence "Suffolk county" just like "red car". The Irish order is not normally compatible with English syntax. On the other hand it could be a variation on "the county of xxx", for example: "the county of Cork" becoming "County Cork". That's what I would call an explanation. I'm sure there is one.
Well, if there is a real verifiable reason, it could perhaps be noted, but we currently do not have that. However, in Irish, one does have Contae (county) first (e.g. Contae Chorcaí - for Corcaigh - Cork). This is because the Irish literally means "County (of) Cork" (for example) - and in fact, the latter noun is suitably altered to reflect the relationship ("of") to the initial noun. zoney ♣ talk 02:40, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I reckon its like the British / American River Thames / Hudson River divide, except that in England only County Durham uses "County" at all; the other Traditional counties of England have things like -shire, -land, -sex, -folk instead (admittedly, all suffixes rather than prefixes). Joestynes 10:24, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Well, the county article addresses why most of the English "counties" are called shires -- it's the native Anglo-Saxon system. And there is a small graf in the article telling people in Ireland it's "county XXX" I think it's important to know why (e.g., the third paragraph in this section), as this would benefit the layperson, who stumbles upon the page and wants to maybe know why (beyond "we were first" =P). Bderwest 23:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Administrative counties

We need a separate map here for the current administrative counties. Counties of England has no fewer than 4 maps! Joestynes 10:24, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Origin/ age of counties

Just a reader happening by, great to see the work but I was a bit surprised at "While the provinces have existed for centuries, the counties were first set up in the 19th century to provide a framework for local government." This is simply not correct - the counties are not as old as the ancient provinces (of which there were five, one of which became the county of Meath, then split in East Meath / Westmeath) and are only partially based on the old divisions pre-Strongbow but the counties are well-established, the last county, Wicklow, being created centuries ago from south Dublin and north/ east Carlow (there is a reference to Caterlough further on in the article - this is an archaic spelling of Carlow, which then ran all the way to the coast, and included Arklow town), and the process began quite a bit earlier (County Dublin's origins lie in the late 12th or early 13th century).

I'd have to check but by 1300, there were quite a few of the modern counties, such as Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Kerry, Tipperary, Kildare, Oriel/ Louth, and (south) Connaught and Roscommon, as well as in-formation Ulster and Meath (deLacy country), and at some time Carlow and Wexford, and Kilkenny. Queen's (Laois now) and King's (Offaly) were formed in a period of Plantation, then Longford, Antrim, and the division of Connaught into Galway, Thomond/ Clare, Mayo and Cavan, then the division of Ulster (Donegal, Fermanagh, Tyrone, Monaghan, Coleraine/ Derry, Armagh). Wicklow was created last to separate the wilder parts of the then very large County Dublin, being bulked up with the coastal part of Carlow.

Good luck!


I'll look this up properly and come back with references and if I can find some, some of the old mapping - the counties are shown in maps from at least the 1700's on.

(TW) The Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 was a significant milestone in the framing of the counties and their status.

Hello, I don't know where this comment came from but the Act of 1898 had nothing to do with the "framing" of counties at all, if by that boundaries etc. are meant. The last major boundary work was in the 1840's, concerning enclaves of one county inside another. The county boundaries were last amended to any major degree in 1606, when Wicklow was formed, and many have been stable for much longer. The Act of 1898 really related to how the counties were governed.

[edit] Use of Information by Office of National Statistics in UK

Alistair Dent, the Mapping Services Manager for the Office of National Statistics in the UK, has advised the helpdesk that this article has been used as research material in developing maps for a forthcoming publication. Well done to all those involved in preparing the article. Capitalistroadster 00:14, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Londonderry and article changes

There seem to be a lot of revisions but is it this reader's imagination or are many simply someone taking out County Londonderry and someone else putting it back? If so, it looks a bit amateur. I think many would understand that Londonderry is not popular with all but the fact is, and there is no doubt at all about it, I'm afraid, that the County around the old territory of Doire was defined for the very purpose of creating Londonderry, and was never anything else. There never was a County Derry. County Londonderry was made for and given to the London Company, taking much from the old County Coleraine. A place like Wikipedia needs to be above the question of sentimental dislike of a concept like a county name. 194.237.142.21 13:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)TW

[edit] Some dubious assertions

I've made some changes. Justifications:

  • I dont believe it is useful to count 35 counties of Ireland. There are 29 administrative counties of the Republic and 6 ceremonial counties in NI, but to lump these together is not comparing like with like. The 32 county figure is so widely quoted, I think it best to give it first and qualify it afterwards. I do agree that it would be good to display the new counties (and the cities) on the map , but I would rather leave the traditional names in the map-key for the moment to match the current map.
  • Dubious assertions:
The counties are subdivisions of the ancient Provinces of Ireland, made up, in general, from smaller territories. While the provinces have existed in some form for many centuries, the counties developed under the Norman and British administrations and also from the Christian dioceses.
The modern borders of the Provinces are derived from the best-approximating county boundaries, not vice versa. Well, arguably you can make a case for Connaught and Ulster, but certainly not Munster and Leinster. Diocesan boundaries bear no relation that I can see to county boundaries.
  • Removed assertion:
The strict definition of what constitutes a county in Ireland has been slightly blurred by a growing association of some of the population to their respective administrative county, most prominently noticeable (due to historical influences) in the counties of North Tipperary, South Tipperary and in more recent times the divisions of County Dublin, Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin.
In many areas, localities within counties do have a sense of identity distinct from the rest of the county. North and South Tipperary, and the "North County" of Dublin, are among the most distinct cases, but how this relates to the administrative boundaries is highly conjectural: West Cork, Connemara, etc are distinct without any administrative basis. I don't know of any DLR or South Dublin sense of solidarity.
  • 331 baronies: some sources give the count as 273. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?
  • "Anglo-Saxon noblemen" → "Anglo-Norman noblemen". Obviously. jnestorius(talk) 21:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


As far as the baronies are concerned, it would presumably depend on the year; they were not static and were subject to splits and amlgamations like any other division. !'m just looking at Counting the People by E Margaret Crawford which lists the units listed in the various censuses of the nineteenth century, and incidentally charts some changes. For example, Athlone Barony in Roscommon was split into North Athlone and South Athlone baronies between the 1871 and 1881 censuses, Lower and Upper Carbury Baronies in Slgo were joined between 1821 and 1831. And then there are the two "half baronys" of Rathdown in Dublin and Wicklow.
I would agree that diocesan boundaries have no relation to county boundaries except coincidentally. The dioceses were created for specific tribal groups in the 12th century (since when they have obviously been realigned and merged), and predate counties. Lozleader 21:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

In strict legal terms, in the Republic of Ireland, their is no such thing as "administrative county" - the only legal discription is, well a "county". Whilst terms like "administrative county", "historical county" and "traditional county" are useful ad-hoc terms to distinguish between counties they have no legal basis, at present. See Talk:Fingal#Status, for the legal stuff. Djegan 21:47, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

With regard to Northern Ireland things are more blurry, but again I think any attempt to promote "ceremonial county" maybe unwise (indeed their was a time when I attempted to promote so) as rather the counties are counties used for the purposes of the lord lieutenant and postal addresses (the Postcode Address File of the Royal Mail still uses the counties).

In summary their are 29 counties of the Republic of Ireland and 6 counties of Northern Ireland. What the GAA and popular culture use is just part of the story, and not the end final word on WP:VERIFY. Djegan 21:47, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. My point is that, if one number is to be mentioned in the opening sentence, it should be 32 rather than 35. One might well argue for mentioning no number at all so soon, though personally I think the current caveats are adequate. jnestorius(talk) 21:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
If there are now 35 counties on the island (which is, sadly, true), then the article should state that, if it's going to state any number. Otherwise, a casual reader just skimming the article could well get the impression (or maintain the impression, as I had done till recently) that there are 32 counties when, in fact, there are 35. Otherwise it'd be like stating in Dublin that "The population of Dublin comprises 100,000 Polish people." and only later mentioning the near-million Irish. (Bad example, I know. It's late).
I dont believe it is useful to count 35 counties of Ireland. The point is that it is now (sadly, IMHO) correct to count 35 counties, not 32. Bastun 01:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately there are amongst us a few people who insist on maintaining there are now 29 counties in the Republic of Ireland. You just don't get it. This is quite simply not the case. The 26 counties ARE GEOGRAPHICAL AND LEGAL DIVISIONS, not administrative divisions. Please remember that and state that in your edits. Nowhere will you see the government representing more than 26 counties on a local level, nowhere will you find the Irish Ordinance Survey mapping more than 26 counties, nowhere will you see semi-state bodies represent more than 26 counties,[1] nowhere will you find 29 counties been represented at any international level BECAUSE ONLY 26 COUNTIES EXIST. However, for administrative reasons, two counties (Dublin and Tipperary) have been subdivided for that purpose and that purpose only, not an a legal county division only as an administrative division. Why would the language commission, who decide on the names of what legally exists in Ireland, specifically list the counties separately from the administrative counties, unless the 26 counties were the only true legal county entities? If the legal counties and administrative counties had the same standing then they would be listed together. The An tOrdú Logainmneacha (Contaetha agus Cúigí) 2003 lists all the counties as defined by the Official Languages Act 2003 and from this page you can download the an overview document of the legislation [2]. Check out this listing and then stop pushing a falsehood. Yes, the 2003 local government act did create new counties within Dublin, along with the existing Co. Tipperary divisions, but only for administrative purposes. Be specific about this fact when using the terms County Fingal, etc. I am fed up seeing inaccuracies propagated like infoboxes that state the Skerries, Dublin or Balbriggan are in County Fingal when that is only an administrative county and the infobox is for mainly geographical data. ww2censor 01:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Ww2censor, I would have made exactly those arguments - and did - until Djegan pointed out the relavant legislation to me here: Talk:Fingal#Status. Sad but true, county Dublin no longer exists, because the Oireachtas legislated it out of existence. Bastun 01:18, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
An analogy: How many cities in the United States? The term is defined differently in different states. There are only 64 in Pennsylvania, but 147 in Nebraska which has a much smaller population. The comparison is meaningless so the total is spurious. By all means state there are 29 counties in the Republic of Ireland. But there are 35 in the island? Meaningless. Also, given my edit made other changes, simple reversion is clumsy. I have edited what I hope is an intro more agreeable to all. jnestorius(talk) 02:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I have seen the legislation Djegan's refers to but it deals with administration by local government not to geographical divisions of the state. Even in the Talk:Fingal#Status page he says: Yes County Dublin, as an area or county in law does not exist, well that is not what the act says. It says that the: Establishment and boundaries of administrative counties shall cease to exist, etc and new ones established. It says nothing about the geographical or legal county status at all. So, where was this problem before 2003? No one ever made the assertion there were 27 counties just because Co. Tipperary is administratively divided into 2, so why the problem now. Look at the references I provided. In the meantime I should try to contact an Irish barrister friend who has an interest in such things and will no doubt clarify it from a legal perspective - that would be where the final word on this matter would be decided. ww2censor 04:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Re the use of the terms 26 counties and 6 counties as found on the links above. My interpretation is that they are alternative names for the two jurisdictions used to either avoid confusion or to avoid using the official titles. The Dublin based state being, according to the constitution, Ireland (or Éire in the Irish language), but is often described as "the 26 counties" to avoid confusing it with the island of Ireland.
The state is also designated as the "Republic of Ireland" per 1948 legislation, but this term is not used by Republicans who prefer to use "the 26 counties" in its place.
Similarly the term "Northern Ireland" is objected to by Republicans. I was at a seminar once where activists made repeated complaints to the Irish Government speakers using the term "Northern Ireland" and wanting them to use "Six Counties" in its place.
The point I'm trying to (long-windedly) make is that the "26 counties" and "6 counties" have independent existences as geographical terms, never mind how many counties there actually are in law, so the phrase "across the twenty six counties" doesn't prove the existence of that number of counties (or of any). Lozleader 09:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, the term "Republic of Ireland" tends not to be used in officialdom by Dublin, its simply frowned on in any official sense and thus 26 counties forms an important pseudonym when Ireland is simply ambigious. Djegan 22:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Jnestorius - the current opening paragraph seems fine to me as it reads at present, after your latest edit. It gets all the facts across, at any rate. However, regarding the map, the new "administrative" counties should be included. Probably the best compromise would be leave Dublin and Tipperary links as at present and either in the list or in footnotes add in something like "(comprising North Tipperary, South Tipperary)"? Bastun 09:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The 26 counties of the republic are not "geographical and legal divisions" as someone has insisted. Their are 29 counties, this is the law of the land, the law the Oireachtas has made under the authority of the people as vested in them by the constitution. The counties are a British invention anyway, the only Irish thing about them is their cultural and historic impact. We all know the fundemental cultural and historical meaning of the 26 counties, but to claim that they are "geographical and legal divisions" is incorrect - the counties are not geographical divisions (geographical division implies they are geographically distinct from each other, e.g. islands etc), they are simply divisions created for the service of man. What is a geographical division anyway? Do you mean political division? I have never heard the term (geographical division) applied to counties of Ireland.

Those who are uncertain should consult the most recent version of the Discovery Series, Sheet 50 (Third Edition 2005) of Ordnance Survey Ireland; this map primarily of Dublin city and county maps the boundaries of city of Dublin and the counties of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin; their is no mention of County Dublin.

In legal terms the three new counties are not "created within Dublin" anymore than the Republic of Ireland is a state created within the state of Ireland. Its a logical fallacy. Any claims that the 26 counties are "geographical and legal divisions" needs to be backed up by evidence. An tOrdú Logainmneacha (Contaetha agus Cúigí) 2003 lists all the counties (administrative and historic) as does CSO Census 2002. To claim that officialdom has ignored the 29 counties is wrong. GAA loyalities do no make the law. Djegan 22:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] County X

In Irish usage, the word county always precedes the county name, as opposed to other English-speaking countries' usage, where it follows the name.

This is not true. In England (the quintessential "English-speaking-country"), the term "county" almost never follows the name of the county. In most cases there is simply no need, because the word shire forms a suffix. In the only anomalous example, County Durham, the formation follows the Irish pattern. The usual way, in English, of describing the full name of a county would be "County of XXXXX" - again, this puts "county" before the name, just as in Ireland. TharkunColl 23:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

"always" is too strong a word for Ireland. First off, usually people say simply X, not "County X" or "X County". Second, people occasionally do say "X County", to contrast with "X City" or "X Town". That said, in most contexts "X County" is unidiomatic. Without sources, I'm not sure how much to vaguify the current text. jnestorius(talk) 12:02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alphabetical list

I've been trying to prettify the table and increase its information content. My best effort, incomplete, is as follows:

County/city name
(Former names)		 Province
(NI for Northern Ireland)		 County town Area (km²) Population
Antrim Ulster (NI) Antrim ‡
  City of Belfast†  
Armagh Ulster (NI) Armagh
Carlow (Caterlaugh) Leinster Carlow 896 50,471
Cavan Ulster Cavan 1,891 63,961
Clare (Thomond) Munster Ennis 3,188 110,800
Cork Munster Cork 7,460 361,766‡
  City of Cork   119,143
Donegal (Tyrconnel) Ulster Lifford 4,831 146,956
Down Ulster (NI) Downpatrick
Dublin Leinster Dublin 922 1,186,159‡
  City of Dublin   505,739
  Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Dún Laoghaire 193,688
  Fingal Swords 239,813
  South Dublin Tallaght 246,919
Fermanagh Ulster (NI) Enniskillen
Galway Connacht Galway 5,940 159,052‡
  City of Galway   71,983
Kerry Munster Tralee 4,701 139,616
Kildare Leinster Naas 1,694 186,075
Kilkenny Leinster Kilkenny 2,062 87,394
Laois (Queen's County, Leix, Laoighis) Leinster Portlaoise 1,720 67,012
Leitrim Connacht Carrick-on-Shannon 1,525 28,837
Limerick Munster Limerick 2,686 131,303‡
  City of Limerick   52,560
Londonderry (Coleraine) Ulster (NI) Derry ‡
  City of Derry  
Longford Leinster Longford 1,044 34,361
Louth Leinster Dundalk 823 110,894
Mayo Connacht Castlebar 5,398 123,648
Meath Leinster Trim (Navan de facto) 2,336 162,621
Monaghan Ulster Monaghan 1,291 55,816
Offaly (King's County) Leinster Tullamore 1,998 70,604
Roscommon Connacht Roscommon 2,463 58,700
Sligo Connacht Sligo 1,796 60,863
Tipperary Munster Clonmel (traditionally Tipperary) 4,255 149,040
  North Tipperary Nenagh 65,988
  South Tipperary Clonmel 83,052
Tyrone Ulster (NI) Omagh
Waterford Munster Waterford (Dungarvan de facto) 1,838 62,167‡
  City of Waterford   45,775
Westmeath Leinster Mullingar 1,763 79,403
Wexford Leinster Wexford 2,351 131,615
Wicklow Leinster Wicklow 2,025 126,330

†Belfast, originally in County Antrim, acquired land from County Down when made a county borough in 1898.
‡Apart from County Dublin, the population shown for a county excludes the population of the corresponding city.

Some points:

  1. I don't really see the need for List of Irish counties by population and List of Irish counties by area; this information can be folded in here. Ditto County Town#Traditional counties of the Republic of Ireland.
  2. My source for Republic population is Population of each Province, County and City and actual and percentage change, 2002 and 2006 Preliminary results of 2006 Census, Central Statistics Office. I don't know why the list article is only half updated in that regard.
  3. My source for Republic county areas is this, which is a good site but doesn't mention the new Dublin counties. These figures differ from the List article, presumably by inclusion/exclusion of lake surfaces. What's Wikipolicy on that one? I don't think either set of figures aggregate to the total area in given in Republic of Ireland.
  4. A big problem is the lack of official population census figures for the NI counties, as they now go by district. Where do the estimates in the List article come from? Are there more recent ones?
  5. There are some discrepancies about county towns that need ironing out.
  6. It might be worth adding foundation/shiring dates; but that's probably something handled in an expanded History section as it's complicated for some.
  7. Similarly, it might be worth including the pre-modern counties (Desmond etc), but probably not.

Any comments? jnestorius(talk) 23:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The main problem I see with it is it lists 32 'main' counties (with subdivisions) rather than the correct 35, as per Talk, above. It would be correct instead to list those 35, and have a second column titled 'Formerly part of/formerly known as', or similar, which would include Dublin for the new counties of South Dublin, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown; Tipperary for North and South Tipperary; and King's County & Leix for Laois, etc. Bastun 00:10, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, the current list has 32, not 35, so at least my proposal isn't any worse. I would rather have separate tables of 29 and 6 than one of 35. An international border is a pretty big distinction to be mentioning only in passing. Then maybe Dub and Tipp could be in a third obsolete table with Desmond and Ferns. jnestorius(talk) 00:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Belfast included parts of Down before 1898. According to a report of the Local Government Board for Ireland for 1900/01 describes the area before and after the extension of boundaries by the Belfast Corporation Act 1896, and it gives total areas for before and after the enlargement:
Before 1896: in County Antrim 4,322 acres, 0 roods, 33 perches; in County Down 1,668 acres, 3 roods, 22 perches. the 1896 act added 5,814 acres, 2 roods and 8 perches from antrim and 2,910 acres, 1 rood and 24 perches from Down.
There was of course no problem with a borough lying in more than one county pre 1899 Lozleader 09:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks. That's what I get for trusting Wikipedia's own information. jnestorius(talk) 12:02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The last time I did research on the population of the counties of Northern Ireland I could no find any official county based figures. As far as I know ther has not been such figures since the 1973 reforms of local government in Northern Ireland. They simply dont exist, any figures are estimates. Djegan 14:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but whose estimates are currently used on Wikipedia? If they're just some Wikipedian's, they should be zapped forthwith. jnestorius(talk) 17:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Well the very specific "estimated" figure for County Tyrone (166,516) is exactly the same as the totals recorded for Cookstown, Dungannon & South Tyrone, Omagh and Strabane districts at the last census. seeing as there are bits of tyrone in Fermangh District that can't be right. Lozleader 10:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapping

I am wondering whether there is legislation requiring any mapping authority to include boundaries on published maps. This seems to be the case for Scotland and, therefore, counties and parishes have disappeared from Ordnance Survey maps and, now, there are 32 'council areas'. Laurel Bush 09:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC).

As mentioned above. the Ordinace Survey only defines 26 counties in the Rephblic of Ireland: look here and here. So those who still insist there are 29 counties still don't understand that is only for administration purposes. ww2censor 12:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
A couple of points: the OSI has no function in defining what is and what is not a county. That's for the legislature, and this is the only applicable law defining what is and what is not a county in Ireland. Believe me, I've looked for others and failed. As regards the OSI pages you've referenced, they're dated 2002. So, published after the law, yes, but I imagine they went ahead with what they had rather than rediong work in 5 counties. Bastun 12:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The situation with Dublin is per the law in the most recent Ordnance Survey Ireland maps, viz the boundaries of the city of Dublin and the counties of Dun Laoighaire-Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin are shown and the legend on the map indicates "County Boundary"; no "County Dublin" is indicated. In this case the map is Discovery Series, Sheet 50, Third Edition 2005, Ordnance Survey Ireland, Dublin - the most recent print of this 1:50,000 series sold to the general public and is on sale. As for the links referred, whilst they only show 26 counties no claim is made that "the Ordinace Survey only defines 26 counties in the Rephblic of Ireland" (sic) - their is a distinction between presentation of raw data and legal effect; whats acceptable for primary school standard does not cut it here. Their is simply no legal definition of the traditional 26 counties; successive acts of the legislature have made them meaningless beyond cultural and historic cognotations. The law indicates 29 counties, this can be show and has been shown previous. If anyone can suggest otherwise, I await sources. Djegan 17:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The linked OSI data seems pretty old, measuring things in acres and miles. I wonder if anyone has yet actually calculated how the 1.49 square miles of water in Dublin is distributed among the four county/city areas. jnestorius(talk) 18:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Numbers of baronies and parishes

Regarding the disputed number of baronies and civil parishes, according to Counting the People (cited above) the numbers of these at the censuses of 1841 - 1911 was:

  • Baronies: 1841:312, 1851: 323, 1861: 323, 1871: 325, 1881 and 1891: 327
  • Civil parishes: 1871 and 1881: 2,426, 1891, 1901, 1911: 2,428

The number of townlands varies in range from 60,462 - 60,915, the number decreasing until 1901, when it increased. Lozleader 10:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] infobox

Is the ROI politics infobox relevent here? Since this page is also about NI, surely there shouldn't be an ROI infobox. NotMuchToSay 19:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed we already have a link in the infobox to local government which is more relevant to politics. Djegan 19:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
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