Talk:Cork

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[edit] question

Do people think we could have this page be the city article, with a link to Cork (disambiguation) at the top of the page? Apparently Cork (the city) returns the most results in an Internet search. zoney ▓   ▒ talk 17:51, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

No. How can you claim that bottle cork is less important? The whole civilization rests on corks, pegs, stoppers. :-) Seriously, the topics are equally valid. BTW, how exactly did you separate cork from Cork in google? Mikkalai 18:55, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I was inaccurate. The "Cork" (city) results pop up first. But as regards importance... I'd imagine there are more links to the city than the object on Wikipedia. zoney ▓   ▒ talk 20:51, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I believe that "Cork" should refer to the city with a disambiguation link at the top. The city is by far the most common usage of the name (not just on google) and common usage is always a major consideration in these matters on wiki. Moreover the article "Cork" is already a disambiguation page and this is uncommon in wikipedia were if their is an accepted common usage such as a place then this is the default. Djegan 11:44, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In fact, according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions, despite the ongoing discussion of details, the proper name of the main article about the city would be Cork, Ireland. That's what I'm doing right now. Mikkalai 22:17, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
That convention Wikipedia:Naming conventions (city names), would appear to only apply to US cities and not neccessarily the rest of the world. Djegan 22:31, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
No. You'd better read all talk archives. BTW, after reading them I was inclined to accept your POV. Google shows the following staticstics (for English language pages:
  • Cork: -- 2,500,000
  • Cork + Ireland -- 1,630,000
  • "Cork, Ireland" -- 452,000
  • Cork + wine -- 417,000
  • Cork + bottle -- 279,000
  • "Cork City" -- 190,000

But, I suggest you to wait 2-3 more days. Maybe someone else joins the discussion and syas something smart. Mikkalai 23:17, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] From my talk page

Mikkalai 23:52, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi there,

You may be interested to know that there's currently discussion on the preferred locations of the Irish city articles (such as Cork) at Wikipedia:Irish wikipedians' notice board#City article names. The article locations for Irish cities are horribly inconsistent.

The "Cityname, countryname" format is not as common outside the US. There is no reason, for example, not to have Cork city as the article name at least. Please note: If you like that suggestion, don't move it there immediately, discussion is ongoing.

As regards Cork specifically, there's been suggestion that most links go to the city, most internet searches provide city results first, etc., and as a result, the city article should be at Cork with a link to Cork (disambiguation).

zoney ▓   ▒ talk 23:40, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I will intervene no more. Mikkalai 23:52, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] revisiting the Cork-as-city primacy question

I think this is a case where a Google-based census of the term usage is not as valid as in some other cases. The material and stopper definitions are pervasive and often used in English, not just alone, but also in combination terms. Despite the Google tally, I think that if you were to ask a random 100 people on the street of the US, you would get a handful who thought first of the city; on the other hand, if you were to ask a random 100 people on the street in Ireland, the vast majority would think first of the city in which they were strolling. The question on my mind is if the "street query" test should be applied here and whether the US result could be extrapolated to most of the rest of the world or not in this case. Courtland 02:32, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

I think that in order to represent a world-wide view, Cork should re-direct to Cork (material). Definitely. Whoever ever heard about an irish city named cork? The fact that the city gets more google hits is probably because it's a city, and not a kind of material used everyday everywhere in the entire world. (Similarly, when you google for air, you find not air, but rather lots and lots of airlines.) Jobjörn 15:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I definitely agree. The naming should derive from a worldwide perspective. The material is ubiquitous. Respectfully, awareness of the city is not. People rely on an encyclopedia for information on basic things, such as cork. ENeville 07:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
More than one year ago; Courtland made an example featuring a "street query" in Ireland, and one in the United States. (See above.) He is considering whether the hypothetical US result of people thinking of Cork (material) rather than Cork (city) as opposed to the oppposite result in a similarly hypothetical Irish result can be extrapolated to the rest of the world.
That is what seems to be the point of Courtland's reasoning: whether you can extrapolate the US view or not. But, what says the result needs to be extrapolated? If you would ask 100 people about whether "cork" makes them think of the material or the city, it'd probably be the material in just about any street. As I stated four months ago: Whoever ever heard about an Irish city named "Cork"?
What's further pointed out is the issue of the Google test. Before bringing that up again, one needs to consider two things: One, Google is not an encyclopedia. A query on a database index of websites does not fall into "reliable sources". Two, even though you find lots and lots of airlines when googling for air, our article on air does not deal with airlines.
Just my two cents, Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 03:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Cork, (the tree, its wood and bark) should have primacy. Michael Calwell 19:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
"Cork, Ireland": this style seems to be used a lot for European place names. Snowman 19:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

see: Talk:Cork --Serge 06:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Discussion has been moved to Talk:Cork (city) --Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 19:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hiding qualifiers

Technically, WP:MOSDAB says you shouldn't. -- SCZenz 19:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move request

Please see Talk:Cork (city) for an ongoing dispute. There is currently a request to have Cork (city) moved back to this (Cork) location. zoney ♣ talk 22:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cork county

Cork isn't just a city it's the largest county in Ireland. Having "Cork" point to the city instead of the county would be ambiguous. Since cork is also a verb I think it might be clearer for "cork" to be a disambiguation page.

Cork City is used frequently to differentiate from Cork County so it would be easy and clear for the articles to use those names. Cork (material) seems less clear. Ronank 02:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

This is a dispute that got rather ugly there for a while, but it looks like the disambiguation page is here to stay. -Patstuarttalk|edits 14:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Cork City was rejected because of potential confusion with the football club of that name. Samsara (talk • contribs) 14:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
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