Talk:Coral Castle

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What does coral weigh? I thought it was really light? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 8r13n (talk • contribs) 01:11, 6 February 2006.

• That's like the old trick question, "Which weighs more, a ton of gold or a ton of feathers?" The answer is neither. It doesn't matter how light a feather is; a ton will always weigh a ton. --shadow box 14:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Chronologies don't add up 2 In reference to what Agnes said 3 Injecting a little skepticism 4 One Man, Alone 5 visited 6 Tone 7 Leedskalnin's Motivations 8 "Seacrete" 9 REWRITE 10 Forest for the trees 11 Geopolymer 12 this entire article is uncited bunkum

[edit] Chronologies don't add up

Agnes was described as being interviewed when she was in her seventies, and Ed was described as dying a few years after that interview. Since Ed was 10 years older than Agnes, that would have put Ed in his eighties. ... an impossibility since he only lived to be 64. Vonkje 02:08, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] In reference to what Agnes said

the tour guide told us when the Lativan ladies went back to tell Agnes about what was built and how it was for her, she said she's seen the pictures sent to her - the ladies told her no its not the same - she remarked that what would be the point since he died already (something to that effect) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.189.183.70 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 5 February 2006.

[edit] Injecting a little skepticism

I saw an article over at livescience.com that talks about the Coral Castle, hence my interest. The links are all pretty one-sided (even the Wired article) and focus more on the mysteriousness than any sort of rationality. I'm linking the Skeptical Inquirer article from livescience.com as a balance.

As an aside, the Wired article mentions that the "telescope" always points towards the North Star and that on the winter solstice, light shines through it. This is an impossibility, as the sun never appears opposite the North Star. Even on that day, the sun will still be about 67 degrees out of alignment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Phlegmofdiscontent (talk • contribs) 15:57, 28 March 2006.

I changed some of the language slightly to make sure the Egyptian "secrets" mentioned are not made out to look like anything more than ropes and pulleys, etc., which we know the Egyptians used. The Egyptians did not use sound waves, trained baboons, Oprah Winfrey or any other ludicrous method to build the pyramids. When you have an endless supply of slaves, you don't tend to look beyond sheer manpower as the most obvious course of action. --Dave420 18:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One Man, Alone

I edited the article to reflect that the "one man assembled the castle all by his lonesome" has never actually been verified. He worked in the dark, right? Who's to say he worked alone? It's a small point, but it's part of the mythology of the Coral Castle.Ingres77 03:27, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] visited

My family and I took a tour of the castle a couple of months ago. The tour guide said that Ed (what everyone called him) moved the stones by means of magnetic force due to ley lines. At various places around the castle I could feel magnetic forces. This is possible by someone trying to lower my raised arm and my resisting (If I moved away from the magnetic force I could not resit the movement when I had before). It is true that Ed would not let adults watch him work. If someone peeked over the wall Ed would stop, turn around and wave. But if a child were watching Ed would continue to work and as soon as he had placed his block he would wave to the children and welcome them in. Ed really was a brilliant man, he designed a pressure cooker and most of his tools were out of old car parts. Even the way he carved the rock is amazing. We sat in various chairs and 'loungers' around the castle and the Lombard support was perfect. Also, the Polaris Telescope does not point precisely at the North Star, because the North Star does move. But the North Star can be seen in the four quadrants of the telescope. Even if you don't believe the 'moving by magnetism' I seriously suggest a visit and the free tour. Ed's work is remarkable and quite a testimony to his love for his "sweet 16." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cellie (talk • contribs) 16:01, 5 April 2006.

I think you mean lumbar support. I don't think he designed chairs specifically for Lombards or for Carole Lombard. Your reminiscences are appreciated, but unless you're made of metal it wasn't magnetism that kept your arm aloft. It's this kind of rubber science that allows people to build mythologies around rational events and market dubious products like "magnetic" bracelets and Calorad. 12.22.250.4 20:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tone

I've added the {tone} template. The article confuses real (it was built in such and such a year) and unreal (antigravity, time travel!) Should refer to "supposed time travel devices" etc. Stevage 10:10, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

• After having read the article twice, I disagree. This article is about an unusual and unexplained structure, and as such, a perennial subject to wild speculation, as mentioned. For example, antigravity and time travel are mentioned as suggestions for and not as the definitive building method. That paragraph even concludes with, "However, it is more likely..." I've removed the tag. --shadow box 14:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leedskalnin's Motivations

I removed the part about Coral Castle being a temple to the ancient Egyptian deities, because it's not true. The claim came from Wired Magazine in its article about Coral Castle, but the author of the piece was discredited for reporting unsubstantiated sources in her stories, and the claim seems to be found nowhere else. To confirm, I called Coral Castle's visitor center, and they said that Coral Castle was absolutely not a temple to anything pagan, and that Leedskalnin's interest in ancient Egypt was not occultish, but only concerned building methods (of the pyramids) and astronomy as a science.

[edit] "Seacrete"

I removed the paragraph regarding electrochemically-deposited "seacrete" as a possible building material. A close-up look at the stone shows that it is obviously naturally-occuring coral (including fossilized shells and such), and there are open pits next to the Castle from which the rock was quarried. Seems cut and dried to me. Will add more to the article later. --Mdresser 21:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed "needs photo" message; they have obviously been added :) --Mdresser 21:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] REWRITE

I am planning a rewrite of this article and the castle's creator, Edward Leedskalnin. I have access to some print materials from the attraction, as well as Leedskalnin's writings, so I should be able to give some good citations. If anyone else is planning revisions, please speak up! --Mdresser 14:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Forest for the trees

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The structure exists! What would it profit a five-foot-something Latvian refugee to fabricate lies about how he created it? The fact is, it is made of numerous several-ton stones, many of which are balanced precisely enough to make even the best rock-balance artists blush. Look, he told the world how he did it. Why don't people just believe him? Is it that reality is stranger than fiction? Sometimes this is exactly the case and we just need to stretch our minds enough to allow in something new. (see quantum physics) Imagine being the first person to declare the earth was actually spherical. Though we now know it to be true it was contradictory to all lay-science and common sense at the time. There is a point at which healthy scientific rigor must let its ego die and relent to other possibilities.

Besides, we all know it was built by an alien alliance, led by Michael Jackson, E.T., and Elvis, materializing via the 49th vibration.  ;)

I agree that the paranormal explanations for the Coral Castle can get a bit overblown. The tour guide published by the current management of the castle doesn't go into alternative explanations about Leedskalnin's methods (however, they have no problem hosting ghost tours, either!) I am planning a re-write to this article similar to the one I did on Leedskalnin himself. I plan on addressing the alternate theories within a section ("Controversies" or "Paranormal explanations" or such), but I don't intend on making that the primary focus of the article. --Mdresser 14:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

As a paranormal investigator (or debunker, as of late) I really do appreciate your enthusiasm, but the perfectly mundane plain and simple analysis is that he was perfectly happy accomplishing great feats and leading people to think wondrous things about how he did it. It's very convenient that he didn't share what he had supposedly learned, considering he had such a big heart. Wikipedia should be avoiding attesting to what has never been witnessed and be providing what has been determined by observations: people lie to make themselves look better, and Edward Leedskalnin used a block and tackle. Kipperoo 09:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geopolymer

Today is December 16, 2006. The main page of the article suggests that Ed probably used simple methods based on block and tackle. Simple methods - Yes. Block and Tackle - No. Mdresser got it right. Searcrete is a close-enough description. Ed said that he knew the secrets of the pyramids. This month a paper has been published in the Journal of the American Ceramic Society. It states that a theory known as geopolymers (ancient concrete) that was first proposed by a scientist in 1979 has now been proved for the top tier of the pyramids. There are millions of stones, so they haven't gotten around to all of them yet.

As far as Ed's motivation for lying, I'm not sure he did. I know he mislead us, but I don't think he ever outright lied. We simply filled in the blanks the way we wanted which was wrong. He said that he understood the laws of weights and measures very well. That gives us the impression that he knows something that we don't. Actually what he knew is that if he tried to lift 30 tons of coral all at once, then he'd get a serious hernia. As far as no one being able to prove seacrete was used, the proof has been on the Internet for just over two years. It's on the world-mysteries.com website under the heading Mystic Places. The menu item to select is Megalith Construction.

[edit] this entire article is uncited bunkum

going to flag it as such until someone makes a serious effort to clean it up - PocklingtonDan 09:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

While uncited, the article IS factually accurate with regards to the creator's life. I recently re-wrote the article on him (Edward Leedskalnin), using print information from the exhibit itself. With regard to the speculation about his building methods, I agree that the tone could be changed a bit. Again, look at the article on Ed--something along those lines would be appropriate here. --Mdresser 20:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)