Talk:Copper

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Elementbox converted 15:14, 2 July 2005 by Femto (previous revision was that of 10:21, 2 July 2005).

Contents 1 I give up 2 Image error 3 Opening Paragraph 4 Toxicity 5 photograph of "copper" ?? 6 Horsehoe crab? 7 Occurence 8 Cu for wire bonding 9 No incomplete d-shell? 10 Smelting etc 11 Price 12 Homoeopathy 13 Copper content in U.S. coins 14 Toxicity 15 Units 16 chalkos 17 Complete history 18 "Copper band corrosion" 19 GA 20 Micro Structure? 21 antiseptic 22 Quick question 23 Illegal commandeering? 24 Molecular formula 25 Extraction - merge proposal 26 Toxicity 27 B-Class

[edit] I give up

User:Vsmith absolutely don't want to know who's producing copper and putting it on the market. All the other metals have that information. Steel has it, all of them has it. But not this one. - Jerryseinfeld 03:15, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Info on producers is OK, but - I'm certain Phelps Dodge isn't the only one out there. At least back in the '70s when I worked in the copper industry, PD had lots of competition. Your edits looked like a promotion for a single big company - so I reverted. If iron and other metals have similar promotion like info they should be cleaned up also. I'll check 'em out when I get time. -Vsmith 14:44, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Nope. I just checked a dozen or so metals from Al to Zn - no company commercials found. Steel did - it isn't a primary metal. Doesn't now. -Vsmith 16:11, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Image error

You may have seen the recent comments about the wrong no. of neutrons on copper. I have reported the error (see recent history) to the person who posted the image, so hopefully we will get copper with only 34 neutrons on it. Walkerma 16:03, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Paragraph

There should be a brief physical description at the top, including color, malleability, ductility, etc.

[edit] Toxicity

Two points I would like to see added:

The toxicity of copper is largely related to redox cycling and the catalysis of reactive oxygen species production (hydroxyl radical for example)(aka free radicals).

There is growing evidence that copper may play a signifcant role in the aggregation of protein plaques in the neurodegenerative diseases Alzheimer's and CJD, vCJD.

Molecular Aspects of Medicine 26 (2005) 405-420

[edit] photograph of "copper" ??

under PHYSICAL PROPERTIES the yellow coloured nugget shown at left as an example of copper is actually a GOLD nugget! the colour and surface texture are obvious! A copper photo should be found and this one deleted (or moved to a gold page)

Agreed - looks more like gold to me, therefore removed image link. Also need a better image of native copper than the one below - maybe I'll get my camera out and do it someday :-) - Vsmith 17:23, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horsehoe crab?

If I'm not mistaken, most (all?) invertebrates use copper instead of iron as an oxygen transporter. It's misleading to mention the horseshoe crab, as it implies that this specie is unique in this respect.

[edit] Occurence

I'd like to know how abundant copper is as a resource. How much is still left to be mined? (83.118.38.37 01:37, 19 January 2006 (UTC))

Copper supply is not at risk during the immediate future. For an article on a recent study, see: [1] Rklawton 18:47, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

An older source predicts that we've already run out: Rklawton 19:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

In the late 1960s, Paul Ehrlich's bestseller The Population Bomb predicted famines that would kill hundreds of millions in the 1970s as the world's population passed the sustainability point. The landmark 1972 Limits of Growth study by the Club of Rome predicted that if consumption continued to exponentially expand, the world would run out of gold by 1981, mercury by 1985, zinc by 1990, petroleum by 1992, and copper, lead and natural gas by 1993.

[edit] Cu for wire bonding

I do not agree with the fact that Cu is used for wire bonding. Cu will suffer from fast oxidation which will make the bonding fragile. Any comments of experts?

Also just mentioned on the wire bonding page, apparently it is stored in sealed packages before use.--KingCarrot 15:33, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

In Reply

Copper is the most common form of cable used for electrical wiring, aluminium and steel are used on larger camble sizes. The conductor is covered in a coloured pvc or lsf sheath protecting the metal from oxidation. Typical sizes of cable are 1.0mm3, 1.5mm3, 2.5mm3, 4.0mm3, 6.0mm3, 10.0mm3, 25.0mm3. From 4.0mm3 the cable tends to be stranded to allow for flexability without damage. Larger sizes ans smaller sizes exist but these are the ones I have dealt with.

[edit] No incomplete d-shell?

Question. Cu: [Ar] 3d10 4s1 (more stable than [Ar] 3ds9 4s2) It has a COMPLETE d-shell but it is still classed as a transition metal - why is this?

Answer. Cu2+ (a common ion of Copper) has the electron arrangment: [Ar] 3d9 It has an INCOMPLETE d-shell thus copper is transitional.

How rigid is that definition? Gotta have some flex to fit reality. Cu isn't the only exception to the rule. Consider Palladium [Kr] 4d10 with no 5s and a full 4d.

I'd say they're both transition metals with configurations that fail to strictly comply with our overly rigid def. Vsmith 01:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smelting etc

The present article contains no information as to how copper is smelted. Furthermore, the section on mining seems to be limited to prehistoric mining in the Brtiish Isles. Should there not be something about the rest of the world and about more modern periods. Perhaps these should appear in some kind of satellite article. Peterkingiron 23:01, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Copper was traditionally smelted from the sulphide ores like chalcopyrite; in recent times, ie the last 20 years Copper Oxide have been an increasingly common source via the SX/EW process.--Oswalia 12:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

See the links under Occurrence. Vsmith 02:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I had missed those, but they seem only to deal with present day techniques, not historic ones. Peterkingiron 22:43, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Price

Any chance someone could add something on the copper market, and what are perceived to be the main influences on it?

The recent price charts seem quite extraordinary, at least.

Copper is first and foremost the electrical metal. Thus its usage and the growth of usage depends largely on electricity demand, and by implication, GNP growth. Copper supply underwent a revolution in the 1980's and 1990's with the conversion of many abandoned spoil heaps containing Copper Oxides into worthwhile sources of cheap metal. With global GNP rising and the supply revolution having been completed, there is little marginal supply and no good replacement; hence the price action in the last year or so.

RandomP 09:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I presume that this is the result of industrialisation in the Peoples Republic of China. This has transformed the market for several minerals and the metals made from them. For example, it has saved several steelworks that were earmarked for closure. However, mining and metal industries tend to be cyclical. There is a glut, so capacity is cut by closing older works; then capacity is too little and the price rising. That stimulates more works to be built, but ends off with excess capacity. I am not an expert in that and so have refrained from amending the article. Peterkingiron 22:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It would be nice to include a mention of it.

Jak722 21:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homoeopathy

In the h. you use copper against cramps, asthma and other spasmodic dieseases like (cramp) cough. Copper has the latin name cuprum. Usual you take pills D4 or D6. Ampoules have normally D8. --Fackel 00:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copper content in U.S. coins

The numbers in this article for the copper content of U.S. coins are completely wrong. Or rather these numbers do not agree with the official numbers given by the U.S. mint, here: http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_coins/index.cfm?printer=no&flash=yes&action=faq_circulating_coin Presumably all these percentages are by weight.

Correct numbers:

U.S. Pennies are 2.5% copper by weight (Balance zinc 97.5%).

U.S. Nickels are 75.0% copper by weight (Balance nickel 25.0%).

U.S. Dimes are 91.7% copper by weight (Balance nickel 8.3%).

U.S. Quarters are 91.7% copper by weight (Balance nickel 8.3%).

I am working on an edit with citation and stuff now, but it may take a while I am still figuring out how to do that. Buck Leupitsthlaw 19:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I decided to go ahead and make the edit. Also decided that citation wasn't necessary since the U.S. Pennies,U.S. Nickels, U.S. Dimes, U.S. Quarters pages contain adequate citations to the U.S. Mint. Also, now the numbers in the copper article agree with those articles, wrt U.S. coins. Buck Leupitsthlaw 20:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

That seems interesting. It could also be noted that pennies are now actually worth more than one cent because of their value as copper.Slartibartfast1992 01:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Toxicity

Could anyone confirm that copper powder is more toxic than Beryllium powder when inhaled (or ingested) 8-)--Light current 11:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Units

Howabout standard units of measure... i.e m^3 instead of cm^3? wouldn't that be much clearer?

[edit] chalkos

on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcogen it says that chalkos is "ore". It can't be both, can it?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Victorclaessen (talk • contribs).

Why not? Assuming the ores known by the Greeks on Cyprus were copper sulfide ores, then chalkos could be both. Vsmith 12:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Chalkos is indeed the Classical Greek for Copper, and sometimes its alloys such as brass and bronze. Chalcogen should therefore mean copper-forming; if this is indeed the name for oxygen, sulphur, selenium, tellurium and polonium, there is something odd about that chemical term. Apparently the person who coined the term did intend it to mean 'ore forming', but this seems to me a case of bad etymology; copper is the oldest base metal, but not the only one. Peterkingiron 23:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Complete history

I find no mention of the massive deposits of copper in Northern Michigan. 13 Billion pounds of copper and 16 million ounces of silver have been taken from the area since 1845.(http://www.exploringthenorth.com/redmetal/tours.html) Prior to that is is estimated that 1.5 billion pounds had been minned since about 5000 BC.(http://www.exploringthenorth.com/cophistory/cophist.html)

Can we be more specific than, "In Greek times..." under the 'history' heading?! Very uncool.

[edit] "Copper band corrosion"

Base for additions : band, corrosion and this copper article.

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to be about. Does it mean "band" as in "wedding band" or "conduction band" or what? Why does this deserve a whole section in this article? —Keenan Pepper 23:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA

I've put the GA on hold for 7 days. Issues include:

• Expansion of intro - Wikipedia:Lead section

Sorted Blood red sandman 16:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• Several {{citiation needed}} tags still in article

unsourced information removed Blood red sandman 16:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• Cleanup references, preferably to all in-line refs

someone else is going to have to do this - I hit upon problems trying Blood red sandman 16:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorted - all but two are now footnotes, and I think the other two are better left as is anyway - Blood red sandman 16:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

• Pics in Applications section need organizing

I agree, but I'm at a dead loss about what should be done. Any sugestions? Blood red sandman 16:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Fixed pics, I think I can live with em like that. Joe I 18:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

• Historical copper mining section - I see no modern mining section, why distingush historical, and Britian and US were the only two countries to mine copper?

I've done a little bit of sorting, but it could be better - Blood red sandman 16:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• A "see also" section would be nice.

What sort of articles should I include here? Other elemental metals? Seems a bit vague Blood red sandman 16:28, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

A see also isn't mandatory, just something I like to see. Most relevent links would probably be covered in the article or category.

Good luck Joe I 01:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Seems all major issues have been resolved. I see no reason why this article shouldn't be GA. Good Job :) Joe I 04:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Micro Structure?

I think this article should include something about the micro-structure of copper. i.e. I think it would be a good idea if there was a diagram showing a lattice of copper atoms.

Copper has a microstructure of a face centred cubic metal crystal, as illustrated below:

This image should be included in the article.--BusinessMan1 20:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] antiseptic

I heard on a television show once that copper can kill bacteria in water. I still have the tape of it. --Metallurgist 03:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quick question

How is copper mined and extracted? Is it by open pit or underground mining?

Pece Kocovski 00:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

• Either way, depending on the best way of mining the deposit. Sometimes copper is a byproduct of mining for gold. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 06:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

In Butte, MT the Berkeley pit was an-open pit copper mine.

In Butte, it started out as open-stope underground mining. I think they tried block-caving at one point, and ended up mostly open-pit (in the Berkeley). The Contenental pit is still active.BSMet94 20:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Illegal commandeering?

Is it worth mentioning in here that the current ridiculously high price of (Whatever the really good grade copper is called) is is causing numerous thefts of the stuff? 68.39.174.238 00:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

It's certainly interesting, if you can get a reputable article - but the comment would fit better in an article on (whatever really good grade copper is called) itself! This article has to be very broad, and probably shouldn't include such details, IMHO. Walkerma 04:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Molecular formula

All this information about the atom copper is really nice but I don't believe it mentions the molecular formula for solid copper. Anyone know what it is?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.182.167.18 (talk • contribs).

Copper is not a molecule, it is an element, its symbol/formula is 'Cu'. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 23:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extraction - merge proposal

We appear to be developing two parallel articles, some rather incomplete details of copper mining here and a much fuller article on copper extraction. I would suggest that the section on mining here should be largely removed, leaving a brief general statement covering occurence, mining and extraction. I would appreciate comments before I start interfering. Peterkingiron 18:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Toxicity

I recently read about several manifestations of copper toxicity, and the industrial applications that caused them. The two that stick out in my mind are the smothers, a condition described by copper smelters, and vintner's lung (unsure of name accuracy), which is caused by the copper-sulfate sprays used as antifungicides by the wine industry. The source is Copper Deficiency and Toxicity by Charles A. Owen, Jr. I'll write something up and post it here... Stacydreis 21:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)stacydreis

[edit] B-Class

GA class is not part of project assessment scales, and GAs are not tracked by WP Bot 1.0. The assessment level has been set to B class. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 21:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)