Talk:Consumers' cooperative

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Contents 1 New Section 2 capitalism and consumers' cooperative business 3 Copyright of 'What Consumer's co-operation does' 4 'What Consumer's co-operation does' 4.1 POV-section tag 4.2 Economic Democracy 5 Role of Government Section Rewrite

[edit] New Section

This page needs a section on well known co-ops such as REI. ````

[edit] capitalism and consumers' cooperative business

A consumers' cooperative business is a privately owned enterprise that must at least preserve the initial wealth (capital) used to start the business or it will fail. The consumers' cooperative form of business has been successfully harmed in the past by people with vested interest who propagandized that consumers' cooperative enterprise was a form of communism or state favored business, which it is not. This is in part why James Peter Warbasse began one of his last books as follows:

This book is made necessary by the change now in process from the economic system of profit capitalism to some other form. The chaotic uncertainties which characterize the period are associated with war and threats of war. A struggle between two ideologies exists. One is for free private enterprise; the other is for centralized governmental control of property and of men. The cooperative way, presented here, exemplifies free private enterprise and private ownership of property.

A purpose of this book is to show the cooperative method in action as a way to rectify these conflicts, and therefore as a way to peace

COOPERATIVE PEACE by James Peter Warbasse (Bkobres 16:12, 17 April 2006 (UTC))

Please justify how your wisdom is greater than that of James Peter Warbasse, David Levinson! Bkobres 15:06, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Why do you feel that you can remove comments from the Talk Page, RM21? The above comment was due to David Levinson's contention that the consumers' cooperative form of business was not a form of capitalism. --Bkobres 12:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright of 'What Consumer's co-operation does'

Please tag the long extract from Co-operation with a footnote explaining why you think it is public domain. I am concerned it may still be copyright its original author, as it is around 72 years old. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 15:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Most serials and newspapers did not bother to renew copyrights and so many published prior to the 1960s are in the public domain. I've not researched the actual copyright status of Co-operation because it was easier to simply ask the NCBA, which is the Cooperative League's current incarnation, for written permission to offer their early publications online. The content used in the article is only a small portion of the special issue published in May, 1934 and, as its source is identified, should easily fall under fair use regardless of its actual copyright status. Since putting this content online several years ago there has been more work done on compiling databases that make it easier to determine what is and is not in the public domain. I'll see if I can find a definite determination. Bkobres 23:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I see nothing when I click those uga.edu links you post. Maybe I need some special viewer. I think you need to email a copy of the release you got from NCBA to permissions AT wikimedia.org, and paste a copy here, rather than link it. Hope that helps. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'What Consumer's co-operation does'

Would it be possible to abridge, or summarise the article from Cooperation?? Whilst it is undeniably perceptive, it may be extremely lengthy for some readers. (RM21 01:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC))

Though it would be possible to abridge, or summarize, the article from Cooperation doing so would probably result in further amendments to the point of losing the historical authority of the article. --Bkobres 16:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV-section tag

Greeklamb (talk • contribs) tagged this section as extremely biased. --Greeklamb

It is a cited extract from a 1930s promotional pamphlet that is somewhat idealistic. However it is probably reflective of the beliefs of the movement at that time, and also seems to represent the activities of the movement before and since. It presents factually what a consumer coop does, and also has some 1930s polemic against Marxist-Leninism, which is anachronistic for the 21st century (outside Korea and Cuba.) Perhaps an {{expandsection}} banner is more appropriate, or a {{globalize}} one? What specific statements do you object to? What ideas do you have for balancing them with alternative points of view? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 12:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I overlooked that this was a cited article. I reformatted this section so that it visually distinguishes itself from the main article. Does this work for you? Sorry, I'm new at editing. --greek lamb 13:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't be sorry—you found a real problem and fixed it. Thanks! I noticed that with a wide screen or small font, your new table overlaps with the navigation box, instead of flowing round it. (I used Firefox.) Can you fix that? I am still concerned about the copyright of it, however (see above.)

By the way, we don't normally use <nowiki><blockquote></nowiki> tags for talk comments. I removed them --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I changed the width of the table so that it doesn't interfere with the coop template on the right anymore. Let me know if you still have problems. I also put the whole thing in quotes to avoid the copyright issues. I think that should be sufficient, but wouldn't hurt to cite a reference at the bottom.

oh and thanks for teaching me --greek lamb 12:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economic Democracy

The phrase "economic democracy" has been used in Consumers' Cooperative literature for some time as evidenced by this excerpt from the August, 1922, issue of Co-operation(page 140):

THE BRITISH CONGRESS

Brighton, England, during the first week of June, was the scene of the 54th annual congress of the Co-operative Union, the national educational federation of British co-operative societies. The sixteen hundred delegates present represented a member ship of 4,526,475 Co-operators. Precedents were shattered by the appointment for the first time of a woman to preside over the congress. The new President, Margaret Llewelyn Davies, delivered a noteworthy inaugural address, emphasizing the fundamental character of the Cooperative Movement.

"We are working for no patch work modifications, for no 'reconciliation of capital and labor,' for no 'infusion of a better spirit' into old industrial forms," she said. "We are laying the foundations of a new industrial civilization. The rallying cry for the whole labor world is the replacement of capitalism by an industrial democracy producing for use. It is such a non-capitalist society that Co-operators are actually creating. Our program transfers the power of capitalism into the hands of the people organized democratically as consumers; makes capital the servant of labor; allows for a partnership with the workers; abolishes profit, socializes rent, and will ultimately get rid of the present wages system. It opens the great portals of international trade in such a way that all nations may pass through it fraternally together. It gives real power to our political democracy by the creation of an economic democracy."

(emphasis added) Bkobres 00:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Role of Government Section Rewrite

Some of the content in this section seems to veer more on the side of opinion than fact. I'd like to see this section addressing the interface between a consumers' cooperative and the government as well as the legal status of consumers' cooperatives. I like the second paragraph, though it seems as if it might fit better in another section. Gobonobo 19:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)