Talk:Computer animation

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This page really needs some examples of animation, such as via some simple animated GIFs. A POV-Ray rendering of the room/pyramid thing would be useful too. Of course, I should contribute some of this stuff. But if anyone else feels so inclined...Frecklefoot 13:46, 6 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Should mention animated GIFs. --Daniel C. Boyer 22:09, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
And Macromedia Flash. violet/riga 17:10, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Needs a lot of work

I reckon this article needs quite a bit of work. Major enhancements and film breakthroughs should be mentioned - Toy Story, Bullet-time and the technique used for armies in the LOTR trilogy, for example. I'll try and see if I can do something soon. violet/riga 17:10, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

We should definetly have something more flash than the sliding goat animation. I suppose it's a good minimalistic example of the definition of computer animation, but something more up to date should be added. The demiurge June 29, 2005 04:25 (UTC)
Well, I suppose it is an improvement over the red circle I initially had there. :-) I'd support a better example, but it has to remain somewhat simple. It has to get the point across without being distracting. — Frecklefoot | Talk June 29, 2005 13:48 (UTC)
That example should stay, but how about having a loop from something that looks modern too, like a movie or video game. The demiurge June 29, 2005 20:16 (UTC)

[edit] 2D Computer Animation

A discussion about how computers have affected 2D animation production seems appropriate. ie: Digital cell painting, Primitive Vector-Based animation Macromedia Flash, and more advanced 2D animation systems.

I personally developed one of these systems, called Synfig. I'll actually be Giving a talk about Synfig next month, so I could adapt some of the material from that for a discusson on more cutting-edge 2D animation systems.

[edit] "Computer animation is faster than..."

I changed this:

Computer animation is faster than traditional drawn or stop motion animation, because the animated figure is only created ('drawn') once on the computer monitor. Then the limbs, eyes, mouth, clothes, etc. of the 3D figure are moved by the animator. Finally, the animation is rendered.

...because it's not true. The method isn't inherently "faster" than traditional animation, although it is possibly faster than stop motion (though not always). --FuriousFreddy 8 July 2005 21:37 (UTC)hjkdgvkdfnglkdflgkdt

[edit] The first computer animation

I found this on the net (some call him Zajac, others call him Zajak. Some say 1961, some say 1963. 1963 i probably correct):

1) "E. E. Zajac, a scientist at Bell Telephone Laboratory (BTL), created a film called "Simulation of a two-giro gravity attitude control system" in 1963. In this computer generated film, Zajac showed how the attitude of a satellite could be altered as it orbits the Earth. He created the animation on an IBM 7090 mainframe computer. Also at BTL, Ken Knowlton, Frank Sindon and Michael Noll started working in the computer graphics field. Sindon created a film called Force, Mass and Motion illustrating Newton's laws of motion in operation. Around the same time, other scientists were creating computer graphics to illustrate their research. At Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, Nelson Max created the films, "Flow of a Viscous Fluid" and "Propagation of Shock Waves in a Solid Form." Boeing Aircraft created a film called "Vibration of an Aircraft." http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/ph/www/nyit/morrison/1960s.txt ( http://hem.passagen.se/des/hocg/hocg_1970.htm for those who wants to read further)

2) "The cheapness of film production on the Stromberg-Carlson recorder suggested the use of movies. Accordingly, Robert M. McClure made a classified movie of a cloud of incoming enemy missiles and decoys, and Joseph B. Kruskal made a movie to display the iterations of his algorithm for multidimensional scaling. Then Edward E. Zajac conveyed the results of his computer simulation of satellite motion as a movie of a gyrating and tumbling box. A. Michael Noll made a stereographic three-dimensional movie, and Frank W. Sinden illustrated the educational potential of computer movies in his article "Synthetic Cinematography." At about the same time, Knowlton introduced a special movie-making language called BEFLIX, with which several award-winning scientific and artistic films have since been produced." http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cstr/cstr99.html

3) 1963 1st (?) computer generated film by Edward Zajac (Bell Labs)http://dam.org/history/ http://accad.osu.edu/~waynec/history/timeline.html

4) "Computer-generated images (CGI) in motion pictures is an obvious and relevant example of the magic of digitization. Edward Zajac of Bell Laboratories in 1963 began the field with his simulated trip around the globe based on satellite still photographs. Hollywood caught on several years later." http://commfaculty.fullerton.edu/lester/writings/digital_literacy.html

5) "1963 - 1st (suspected) computer generated film by Edward Zajac (Bell Labs)" http://www.geography.wisc.edu/~harrower/Geog575/animation.html

6) "Edward Zajac produced one of the first computer generated films at Bell Labs in 1961, which demonstrated that a satellite could be stabilized to always have a side facing the earth as it orbited. This film was titled A two gyro gravity gradient altitude control system. Ken Knowlton developed the Beflix (Bell Flicks) animation system in 1963, which was used to produce dozens of artistic films by artists Stan VanDerBeek, Noll, Knowlton and Lillian Schwartz. Ken Knowlton and Leon Harmon experimented with human pattern perception and art by perfecting a technique that scanned, fragmented and reconstructed a picture using patterns of dots (such as symbols or printer characters.) Ruth Weiss created in 1964 (published in 1966) some of the first algorithms for converting equations of surfaces to orthographic views on an output device." http://accad.osu.edu/~waynec/history/tree/bell.html

7) "First computer animated film (Two-Gyro Gravity-Gradient Attitude Control System, by Edward Zajak, Bell Labs) (1961)." http://www.cs.wpi.edu/~matt/courses/cs563/talks/history.html


You get the picture. Speaking of picture, you can see picture of it here: http://www.cs.montana.edu/~charon/graphics/presentation2.html Just click on "1960's" on the left. It can also be seen here: http://accad.osu.edu/~waynec/history/lesson4.html

I wonder if it is still around. And if not, what is the earliest computer animation still available? There is some early stuff from the late 60's on the Scanimate DVD, which is maybe not the oldest, but still pretty old since we are talking about CGI here.


And then we have John Whitney Sr., who created some visual effects with a computer in 1971 in the movie The Andromeda Strain. But at imdb, it says he also created some animation back in 1943, called Film Exercise #1. What kind of animation could it be? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1124970/


Peter Foldes made the animated shorts Metadata (1971) and Hunger (1974), but this was 2D CGI (or more precise; computer assisted animation, computers assisting a 2D artist). When the first 3D animation was created, I don't know. There was some CGI in this series, made by this guy (Lee Harrison III): http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2071811/ on an analoge computer. But if some of it was 3D, I can't tell.

I know The Adventures of André and Wally B. from 1984 was made by Pixar, but was it made similar 3D CGI shorts before that?

The first electronic animation (electronic animation as in animation created ny using a machine as the tool, transforming electric signals into animation that can be seen on a screen) may not have been real computers, so what's the main difference between real computer animation and electronic animation in general? The fact that computers are digital? Can non-computer electronic animation still offer something that CGI can't? Slit-scanning and Lear-Siegler video processors and such seems interesting since they are so little known in todays digital world.

Something more interesting at the end:

1957 John Whitney used 17 Bodine motors, 8 Selsyns, 9 different gear units and 5 ball integrators to create analogue computer graphics.

1961 John Whitney used differential gear mechanisms to create film and television title sequences.

1964 Ken Knowlton, working at Bell Laboratories, started developing computer techniques for producing animated movies.

[edit] Hierarchy needed? - the 'Root page' suggestion

This is only one of many good articles on aspects of Animation, all of which tend to be suffering from omissions and duplications, as well as misconceptions over what constitutes CGI for example, as opposed to, computer animation, and whether CGI is a 'film technique'.

I've solved a similar dilemma on other topics by introducing the concept of a 'Root page', in this case Animation, and a hierarchy. I suggest that CGI is computer animation, is animation. If anything, CGI is 'hi-end' computer animation, meaning probably hi-res 3D rather than 2D, but the distinction is disappearing. CGI cannot be a 'film technique' as fully animatied 'movies' like Toy Story are now about to be delivered to cinemas digitally without ever seeing 'film' even as 'videotape'. Avatars and games come 'highest' in the hierarchy, as they involve real-time CGI.

The newcomer to CGI, or to Computer animation, may need to have animation explained, hence the need for hierarchy, with the 'Root page' listed at the top of 'see also' and described as such. The Root page should list all key associated pages in the hierarchy first. --Lindosland 18:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] The Future

I'm removing this block of text because it isn't really appropriate for an encyclopedia article.

The future of animation is unimaginable, there is no way we can know what will be released next. Every day a new program, a new rendering technique enters the market, flipping everything around. Some are so good that the prices for the new capability can be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

This one too

There's no way of knowing how far computer animation can go, every day new effects are created which make it more realistic and more immersive.

Jared Grainger 22:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2 1/2D?

Not 2D and not 3D, but 2 and a 1/2 D? "In 1974, the first computer animated film called Hunger was produced by Rene Jodoin, and directed and animated by Peter Foldes. This effort was a 2 1/2 D system that depended heavily on object interpolation techniques." What would such an animated short look like?

[edit] VideoCel animation

Does anyone knows if this mix of traditional animation and computer animation was developed further?

In 1975 Thomas Klimek and Richard Brown patented the Video-cel technique which permitted the inbetweening of key drawings adding color and three dimensions.

I think this was written in 1980: A process designed to simulate the look of cartoon character animation is VideoCel offered by Computer Creations of Indiana. The process was developed by two aerospace engineers, Thomas Klimek and Richard Brown, who had formerly been involved with computer graphics applications in the missile industry. Their intent in designing VideoCel was to create a computer animation process in which the artist has the most direct possible involvement. This is in contrast to computer graphics houses that expect an agency to submit a storyboard for total execution by the computer firm. Key drawings for the animation are drawn by the artist using a digitizing tablet. The computer then calculates the movements in between the drawings needed to make the action complete (using information put into the computer by the operator) and creates the sequences. Animation of the 30-second TV spot takes about a week, much less than the standard five to six weeks for conventional animation, but the cost is about the same as cel animation. Sequences can be recorded on videotape or film. Like Synthevision, VideoCel uses a high-resolution display.

[edit] what is the difference between ....

what is the difference between computer asisted animation and computer generated animation.? can someone give me a few examples? it got me really comfused...

is beauty and the beast considered as computer asisted animation? what about the 2d animation system developed using complex interpolation techniques?

[edit] This article suffers from a distinct lack of historical information

... for example who were the first folks to use computers in animation? I know one of them was John Whitney, but there must have been others. How were the first computer animation processes developed? I don't know about anyone else but I'm far more interested in the early experiments than I am in Toy Story.

[edit] Pruning the lists

Wikipedia articles are not collections of lists - the ones here are too long, should be pruned. --Janke | Talk 18:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Technical Details" section incredibly unhelpful to newcomers

I've added a {confusing} tag to the section since I'm well aware that it won't make the slightest bit of sense to anybody who doesn't already know the meanings of the terms back buffer, primary buffer, render, v-sync, electron gun... It must be gibberish. And why does it even need to be there? --86.134.165.186 11:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, on a second reading, most of the article is gibberish. This was clearly written by a programmer. --86.134.165.186 11:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I've been a computer animator since 1988 and it is really hard to follow even for me. Seems like the person is writing about what a computer does not just in computer animation but with every screen redraw. I'll work on a (not so) technical explanation of how a computer renders an animation. - Roy Williams, 16th August 2006


I found it usefull, since I am a hardware design (microelectronics) student and I'm trying to work on a project about computer animation on the hardware level... this was very understable to me and far from confusing. Dont descredit the autor because you dont understand. -- Moonglum_(at)hotmail.com

I didn't understand it, but it sounds relevant. This is just a case of hardware technology vs software technology. Computer technology is best divided into 3 disciplines defined by ITT in the 1970s, software "programer", software (user) "operator", hardware "technician". This section is written for the hardware technician. I'm going to re-title the section for now. Maybe the whole pages, and other page that discusses computer technology on all three disciplines need to be organized as such. Oicumayberight 19:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Future? Truly?

To quote the article,

"One open challenge in computer animation is a photorealistic animation of humans. Currently, most computer-animated movies show animal characters (Finding Nemo), fantasy characters (Shrek, Monsters Inc.), or cartoon-like humans (The Incredibles). The movie Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within is often cited as the first computer-generated movie to attempt to show realistic-looking humans. However, due to the enormous complexity of the human body, human motion, and human biomechanics, realistic simulation of humans remains largely an open problem. It is one of the "holy grails" of computer animation."


I feel that this section should be updated to include the breakthroughs in visual technology that Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children has brought to the plate in terms of digital technology.

I would try the edit myself, but I am just starting to get into the field of Computer Animation, so I would like this best left to someone who knows more about what they are talking about.

I just feel that the film is being misrepresented, because, from my point of view, it has the most photorealistic humans to date.

  • But it didn't look real. It was close, but it didn't look real. 86.143.157.188 11:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anime since 1998 or so

I think this article should have a section covering technology/techniques used in some of the amazing newer Japanese anime movies and features such as Spirited Away and Karas (anime). Approached as art, these works are quite different from the Pixar type CAA and I'm sure there is much of interest to be written about the software, programmers and artists. It may take some recruitment from ja.wikipedia.org. JDG 18:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Computer animation in television

Does anyone know of any TV shows that are ENTIRELY CG, particularly utilising the real photorealism style? I'm working on creating an entirely CG show and was wondering whether it's "breaking new ground" or whether it's already been done before. I know it's been done in FILM (e.g Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within and Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children) but as far as I know it hasn't really been used for TV except for special effects in Live Action shows like Stargate. - The preceding comment was made by Grevenko Sereth 14:33 11 August, 2006 (UTC)

While there are many TV series that heavily use CGI for all visuals, I don't know of any that strive for photorealism. However, the first FF movie was derided because of it's laughably unrealistic CGI. I don't think the second ever made it to theaters in the U.S. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I believe Jimmy Neutron is pure-CGI; Code Lyoko switches bewteen pure-CGI and conventional animation, depending on whether the characters are in the "real" world or the virtual one. Dragon Booster seems to use heavy computerization, but I'm not sure it counts as CGI. None of these works is particularly realistic in style, though; they all look cartoony. I can't think of any shows that used "real photorealism style". Of course, there are a few shows that used green-screens almost exclusively; Lexx springs to mind immediately. But the actors in those are still live-action. 209.210.225.6 22:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
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