Talk:Commander Keen series

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[edit] Keen 1 Release

Sarge Baldy: Commander Keen 1 was the first game released under the id Software name, in December 1990, as shown by their own site. The guys who formed id Software had of course made games before for different companies; I think this is made clear by the stuff about Softdisk in the article but feel free to add more elaboration if you want. Also, please don't mark substantive changes like that as minor. DopefishJustin 20:43, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure

Where in Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure does Commander Keen or another Commander Keen item make a cameo? It's not in the Apogee FAQ and it's not in the Look back at Commander Keen article. 81.70.123.72 14:45, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually I think the reference is a mistake, as I don't remember any Keen cameos in Cosmo myself, nor am I able to find any information about it online, except for mentionings it exists without any proof. --Retodon8 07:19, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Duke Nukem makes a cameo there; maybe that was the mix-up.Sega381 12:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EGA

"John Carmack, a game programmer at Softdisk, found a trick that would allow smooth-scrolling graphics in PC games, but only with the 16-color EGA graphics card."

I'm interested in "the trick" that allowed smooth-scrolling on PC's. What was it difficult before EGA cards? --Commander Keane 11:38, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Carmack called this "adaptive tile refresh": the computer was tricked into only redrawing those items that changed, instead of the entire screen. So for example if a white cloud has to pass by on a blue sky, using standard methods the entire screen would have to be rerendered to make the cloud drift to the left. Using Carmack's method, the engine was fooled into thinking the cloud was in the top left of the screen, and as soon as it was redrawn, and the old position overwritten, the engine ended the redraw. So for example if the cloud was at (15,3) and had to move to (14,3) Carmack's trick was equating (14,3) with (0,0) as far as the redraw was concerned. This was combined with a second trick were pixels were prerendered before they came into view, so the redraw appeared instantanious to the game player.
I've not really explained it well, the real info is in David Kushner's "Masters of Doom" which discusses this in high detail. I highly recommend getting this book (if you can still find it): ISBN 0375505245 . Jordi·✆ 12:16, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Just to make it clear: this trick was impossible in CGA cards. EGA was done in a software layer, allowing for tricks like these and the palette swapping which allowed EGA to have 64 colours (four palettes of 16 colours). CGA was done completely in hardware. Jordi·✆ 12:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for great explanation Anárion. I'll check out the book.--Commander Keane 00:22, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The explanation given in that book is extremely poor. EGA had several features that enabled the effect (simplifying some of the technical details): First, it allowed you to create a screen buffer that was a little bit wider than the screen, and as tall as you wanted (subject to video memory limitations). Second, it allowed you to offset the position in this buffer where the screen was drawn by 1 pixel increments, either horizontally or vertically, and the . Third, it had enough video memory to store two such screen buffers, and still have room left over for tiles and sprites. Carmack's smooth scrolling worked in the following manner: he created a buffer that was 64 pixels wider and taller than the screen, essentially leaving room for a row of tiles in the buffer that was not shown onscreen -- he used the offset capabilities of the card to move the screen area in the buffer, for smooth scrolling, which would then partially show the extra rows of tiles -- but that scrolling was limited to the buffer size, which was far too small for a decent level, and if you kept scrolling further, then the other side of the buffer would start becoming visible. So when the scrolling amounted to a whole tile's worth, Carmack's code would then draw the next row of tiles from the level into the buffer, just off the edge of the screen, ready to be displayed when the scrolling continued.
The only issue with this method was, since only the edges of the screen were being redrawn at any time, that sprites in the level would not get redrawn until they reached the edge of the screen. So to counteract that, whenever a sprite moved, the code would calculate which tiles it had covered before the move, redraw those tiles (to erase the old sprite image), then draw the new sprite image in place. This would allow the sprite to move independently of the scrolling. However, since moving a sprite involved first erasing it then redrawing it, you could see the screen flicker briefly as the image of the erased sprite was visible for a fraction of a second; but this was an old problem in graphics, and easily solved: instead of one buffer, you'd make two: one would be shown on screen and one would be hidden. When you needed to update the display, you'd draw onto the hidden buffer, and when finished tell the graphics card to start drawing from the hidden buffer, making it visible and hiding the other. Repeating this continuously produces smooth, flicker-free graphics. User:Adurdin
I find all this information very interesting. Is it possible for someone to make an article out of this?

[edit] The story

The story part of this article needs some work. I think that the stories of Keen 1-2 should be added, although those are already shortly described in the Keen games section. Teklund 14:18, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I tried to expand the story section, to put all the relevant information there.Sega381 12:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation page

I hate it when freaking pages don't have a disambiguation page like this. Commander Keen is not the only use of the word KEEN! 24.184.5.205 02:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I assume you're talking about the Keen page. Why not just edit the that and add links to other "Keen" things? That should be an instant solution to your problem; more effective than complaining about it here. I can't think of anything but Commander Keen myself. Well, the meaning of the word, but no other real subjects. (Please type 4 ~s to add a sig to your edit.) Retodon8 12:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I did a "Search" for "Keen", "Kean", "Keene" and "Keane", and there are a LOT of entries to add if you want a complete DAB page. Linking to Keane (disambiguation), Keene, both DAB pages themselves would help. (Kean doesn't exist, and Keane is about a band.) I also found Keen Toons and a LOT of people with last names from the 4 words I mentioned above, so good luck creating a complete DAB page. :) Retodon8 19:34, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I went ahead and made "Keen" a DAB page after all. It's incomplete because Wikipedia's Search isn't working anymore... has been having problems for the past few days now. Besides completing (if that's even possible), descriptions should still be added for the items, probably especially for the persons. I also added a bunch of persons (and more) to the Keene DAB page. Retodon8 13:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Never announced?? How do we know?

* Monkeystone Games made plans to release Keen Chronicles through a Softek International April 2002. It would have consisted of all Keen games packaged together for Microsoft Windows and Pocket PC, but it never got out of the planning stages, and was never even announced.[citation needed] Industry Media's website features the logo that would have been used.

How do we know of Keen Chronicles if it's never even been announced?? --Shultz III 00:10, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, what the article says it's pretty much it, the logo can be found on the Industry Media website. (Click: Work > Identity > Monkeystone > Next x3.) The "original" thread on CC314 no longer exists due to ezboard being hacked, but the same information can be found on 3DR's forum. However, the first site is Flash, doesn't allow for a direct link, and the second is a forum, which wouldn't exactly be perfect to use for reference. It was never announced, the fact that the logo was found was more or less a fluke, so I say the "citation needed" thingy should probably removed again. Retodon8 01:47, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Influenced by Megaman?

Anyone else think this game was heavily influenced by the Megaman games on the NES? 159.134.163.53 23:43, 23 April 2006

How so? They're both platformers, but the game series has no selectable weapons, no life bar, next to no bosses, a pogo stick... Sharing a genre is about as far as it goes, in my opinion. --Kizor 00:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
(First of all, original and anonymous poster, please sign your posts with 4 tildes; it makes discussions much easier to follow. Thanks.) I have to agree with Kizor. I only played Mega Man on the Game Boy (I think) for a few minutes, but the only thing they have in common, that I can think of, is that they are both platform games. Either game probably has more in common with random other platform games than they do with each other. You didn't elaborate, so please explain what you are referring to exactly. Retodon8 01:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't think that Commander Keen was influenced by Mega Man at all. --SeizureDog 04:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted "Billy Blaze" article

A while ago Nintendude moved Commander Keen to Commander Keen series. I think the original name was better, since nobody will look for "whatever series", but always just "whatever". Of course technically the article is about the the series, so it's not really wrong either. The original article now just redirects here again, so it's still a shame.

Also, he made an article Billy Blaze, which contained no new information, just a few lines of text already in here. In other words, not something deserving its own article. Later Drat (please add a summary next time for easier reference) added that that and this article should be merged. I just removed that line, since I deleted the Billy Blaze article, and redirected it here as well. I figured I'd document it here in case someone was wondering. Retodon8 01:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be kept as Commander Keen series though.--SeizureDog 04:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Easter Egg

Relating to the temple of the moons eastrer egg, I took out "Secret" because this level is not a secret level and is required to finish the game.216.222.255.11320:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Also: The paddle war is a clone of pong, not tennis for two. It is shown from the top, not the side.216.222.255.113 21:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Pong is a tabletop tennis simulator, so it's not technically incorrect Email: Killah20000@hotmail.com

[edit] Keen Dreams Release Date

I am not 100% sure of the year Keen Dreams was released. However, it is certain it was developed before episodes 4-6 (see link to article "A look back at Commander Keen"), and both Moby Games and Gamespot put its release date as 1991. So, unless there is further proof saying otherwise, I think we should keep its release date as 1991.Sega381 12:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roller Coaster Tycoon

I don't think the screen shot of the pinball LED thing looks like a kid wearing a helmet, but more like a kid with parted hair... is there anything supporting that other than guessing; like an official FAQ, or interview with the designers/artists or something? --Atari2600tim (talk • contribs) 09:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't seem as a helmet to me either; and if it were, the colors would be wrong. Unless there is a more official evidence presented, I think the reference should be removed.Sega381 04:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New World Order References

probably doesnt have a place in the main article but there a number of conspiracy paraphernalia, themes and allusions in the games. Anyone else notice this

[edit] Transition of ID from good to evil

At their very beginning, ID Software created good, non-satanic games such as Commander Keen series. But since Dangerous Dave series (introduction of satanic zombies), through Wolfenstein/Spear Of Destiny, Doom (innocent Commander Keen hanged on gallows) and up to Quake and beyond, ID software began to insert satanic motives into their games. Which event could trigger this transition of ID software from good to evil? 83.19.52.107 10:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I think this same conversation is taking place at the Talk:Id Software page, which is more appropiate, so I guess any comments should go there.Sega381 13:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
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