User talk:Colinoncayuga

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I notice you have uploaded an image, please tag your image in accordance with the Wikipedia:Image use policy. Copyrighted images should not be uploaded. - Stoph 07:44, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] K / J

"K" (or rather, pinyin "G") was the actual pronunciation of the 声母 for 京 in Northern and Southern China in historical times. It's been lost in nearly all of Northern speech, though, including Beijinghua and Nanjinghua. But it still survives partially in a few scattered places in the north, like the Shandong peninsula. -- ran (talk) 19:23, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Well, by Shandong peninsula I meant more like the more extreme parts, e.g. the 威海 area. But in any case here's a more complete explanation.
In Middle Chinese the shengmu of j, q, x didn't exist. Instead, some words, such as 精, 清, 星 were pronounced with zi-, ci-, si-, while other words like 京, 轻, 兴 were pronounced with gi-, ki-, hi-. This is kept unchanged in 粤语, 客家话 and 闽语. In fact, the 《中原音韵》 written during the Yuan Dynasty kept it this way too. You can see the 中原音韵 声母 here: [1]
What happened in modern northern Chinese though (by this I include 北方话、吴语、湘语) is that the two converged. Gi- ki- and hi- started to be pronounced more like ji-, qi-, xi-. Later on, zi-, ci-, si- also became pronounced like ji-, qi-, xi-. Of course this takes some time, and in some dialects the process is not complete, for example, in 胶东 (which is the example I gave you). Also, when you listen to 京剧, you can hear that while gi- ki- hi- are pronounced as ji- qi- xi-, zi- ci- si- are still pronounced as zi- ci- si-. This is called 分尖团, with the 尖音 being 精, 清, 星 and the 团音 being 京, 轻, 兴. But the point is that this change happened so recently that it is reasonable to assume that during 明朝 or 清朝初期, the process was not complete in, say Nanjing. (In fact 南京话 did keep 尖团 until very recently, if I remember correctly from what I read.) And since 南京话 was the 标准音 for some time, Westerners would probably have gotten their Romanizations from there. -- ran (talk) 21:07, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
No problem. =) -- ran (talk) 21:19, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright question

I have had a query (vai the Foundation email) about the copyright status of an image you uploaded - Image:Qy1.jpg. Unfortunately, it is not tagged. Please could you fill in the details on this? Please see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for more details on image tagging. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 16:50, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Another image that needs tags is: Image:Tang map yanzhenqing.jpg, like above. We are currently deleting no-source-provided images, I will refrain from marking it as such so you have a change to update it. --Gmaxwell 11:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

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