User talk:Colin4C

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I´m just writing an essay on Hackney as it is referred to in Tom Hunter´s photography. As I can´t find a lot of information on the borough, I´m really glad to have your info on shoreditch, which is the district he has mostly been working on, I think. Any suggestions where I could find more? I need proper sources to name an editor and all that... thanks...

Have you looked at my 'References' in the Shoreditch article? The most up-to-date book on Shoreditch is 'More Light, More Power', by Mander. If you are in London you can find books on Hackney and Shoreditch in the Museum of London and Hackney Museum. Any particular questions you want answering?

Contents

[edit] Image removal

Please review the policy reflected in the image tag for the articles involved. At the very least FU magazine covers can not be used in articles which do not refer to the covers. My reasoning as you describe it is simply quoted from the image tag. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 19:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:FU is really explicit. A fair use magazine cover can not be used to illustrate generally the article on the person shown on it. If you add back the cover in violation of policy I will need to note this on the copyright problem notice board. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 00:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Please note that WP:FU is a guideline, not a policy. fbb_fan 01:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hullaballoo Wolfowitz and Ste4k

If you are fairly certain that this is the same person, you might want to consider marking Hullaballoo as a suspected sock puppet of Ste4k. I'm not familiar with Ste4k, though the start of Hullaballoo's edit histoy does coincide nicely with when Ste4k got banned. And Hullaballoo definitely dove right in at the deep end of the pool, trying to enforcing policies (or at least, one person's interpretation of them) - rather unusual for a "new" user. fbb_fan 15:10, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by administrators or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. Colin, please stop making unfounded and untrue accusations concerning me. Please stop calling me names like "troll". Please stop describing my editing as a "reign of terror." It would be more helpful if you would discuss the editing differences. Rather than making uncomplimentary and uncivil personal remarks. The editor formerly known as Harmonica Wolfowitz 17:45, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

If you are responding to the comments that Colin4C posted originally on my talk page, I don't see the word "troll" used there. I'm sure you must have a good basis for making that accusation though. fbb_fan 01:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Colin4C, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --WikiCats 12:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gothic Fiction

Hello Colin,

Thanks for asking. I would be interested in hearing more about it, as I do enjoy Victorian novels and Gothic fiction. Is this a cyber book club as opposed to a regular book club, where people meet in person to discuss a book? I am not sure how this works as I am a computer illiterate and only have basic skills. I have only just discovered that anyone can edit Wikipedia and find it very interesting. I live in London too, so if you run a book club here, I would be interested in joining. Regards, Natalie. Natalieduerinckx 19:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Natalieduerinckx 23:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project London

In stumbling around, I found Wikipedia:WikiProject_London#Participants

As a source of collaborators and support, it maybe worthwhile. Kbthompson 10:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

Please never insert offending sentences into other editors' user page. [1] It's considered vandalism. NCurse work 06:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Colin, I see that 'Hullaballo Wolfowitz' is back and coincidentially you have been ticked off by a recently appointed, overzealous Hungarian admin. The talk page of 'Hullaballo' clearly shows a history of confrontational behaviour and that he/she is most likely a sock puppet of 'The editor formally known as somebody or other'...See, I am getting the lingo!. Your edit history demonstrates a responsible, civilised attitude and I just wanted to state that for the record. I would avoid them if I were you, as they obviously don't have a sense of humour and you could fall foul of the PC brigade for making a joke about the ambiguous pseudonym. Natalieduerinckx 02:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norton Folgate

Well, this is what I can tell you:

This is confirmed by Youngs,who says that the civil parish was absorbed by Whitechapel CP in 1921

The area of Norton Folgate in relation to other parishes can be seen on this map from 1885: [2]

I've looked on the corresponding area at www.election-maps.co.uk, and although the boundaries have changed a bit, and a lot of the streets are gone, it is inside Tower Hamlets.

Lozleader 21:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Dunno how authoritative this [3] is, but it says "a small part of Norton Folgate was included in the Metropolitan Borough of Shoreditch but the majority went to Stepney", which would expalin the boundary difference. There were certainly minor boundary changes, but with an area so small any change was fairly major! I note that the 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses give it an area of 9 acres, the 1891 10 and the 1901 gives 8. [4] seems to indicate that it exchanged areas with Shoreditch in 1900 Lozleader 22:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Note also that Tower Hamlets archives have norton folgate's records [5] Lozleader 22:13, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
And these planning applications [6]
Ah, here we are: [7] "In 1900 a small portion of it was included in the Metropolitan Borough of Shoreditch, but the greater part of it was incorporated into Stepney."Lozleader 22:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Now chaps ... (I think), the east side of Bishopsgate went to TH, and the west to LBH; that's been more complicated because the City later pinched the Broadgate centre - and I'm not sure that didn't include a bit of ol'Norton. Of course, the west side mainly just includes railway tracks these days .... All of these boundaries are enormously fuzzy, because they get passed back and forth in the reorgs, and the ancient reasons for them have long departed.
There was a famous public house on the west side - The Sir Paul Pindar, laterly Peanuts jazz club, until rebuilding got it ... I think the frontage of the PH is in the V&A (but don't quote me on it) ... I'll have to look at the map, but some of the stuff I added to Spitalfields, about Dennis Severs should also be linked here.
  • Wood-Carving That of Sir Paul Pinder (1600), formerly in Bishopsgate, but now preserved in the Victoria and Albert Museum, is a good example of decorative treatment without overloading. The brackets carved in the shape of monsters which support the projecting upper storey are typical of hundreds of dwellings, as for instance St Peter's Hospital, Bristol. The panels, too, of Sir Paul Pinder's house should be noted. as good examples of that Jacobean form of medallion surrounded by scroll work which is at once as decorative as it is simple Kbthompson 12:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Pretty tragic that they have to destroy old historic pubs like the Sir Paul Pindar IMHO. There used to be a 'Jane Shore' pub in Shoreditch, by the way, before my time....Colin4C 12:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It'll all end in a terrible bout of footnotism, you mark my words ... God, don't touch St Katherines by the Tower, we could be here for a whole milenenia ... nah. keep it up, but do try to control the worst instincts of explaining absolutely everything ... Regardless of reality it has to be some consistent sense of history ... Fax are one thing, but don't let them get in the way of a consistent narrative! ... did I just say that? Kbthompson 23:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bram Stoker

Thanks Colin for letting me know about the new Penguin edition of Stoker's short stories. I only just got the message as my new computer is being repaired and I am offline for now. Natalieduerinckx 20:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Melodrama typo

I see you reverted my correction of a typo. Was that a mistake I wonder? Regards from another archaeologist. - Kleinzach 19:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. What I've done is to change the page title thereby creating a redirect - so people will get to the page however it's capitalized. I trust that's OK with you. Keep digging! - Kleinzach 22:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Byron

Hi, concerning your edit to vampire fiction about Byron - I think it's a bit inaccurate to say that Byron wrote a story concerning a vampire. The story he started writing (and never finished) is so fragmentary that it's difficult to say what it's about, and whether it has anything to do with vampires. Polidori expanded it into The Vampyre, but that's another thing. Here is the text that Byron wrote. Regards, --194.145.161.227 20:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, but where is that account of Polidori's conversation with Byron available/published? I think it would be a good idea to cite it, and also to mention that Byron's text as it is does not indicate that the main character as a vampire. --194.145.161.227 21:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Great, I'm glad I helped to improve this bit! :) --194.145.161.227 22:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dracula

Don't know if this would interest you at all, but I've begun an article on Dracula (BBC). Zahir13 17:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm just curious if you did indeed see this, and what you might have thought. Living in the US, I won't see the whole thing until February, although I have managed to see a few clips. Someone posted a plot summary that wasn't extremely coherent, which I tidied up some (as much as I could be looking at some other reviews online, and hoping them to be accurate). I've a friend who's ordered the DVD and offered to write up a plot summary from a NPOV after it arrives. Look forward to any thoughts or reactions you might choose to share. Zahir13 18:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the additions. I edited that section very slightly to retain the same format as I used for other Dracula adaptations (for example, listing a change rather than noting the difference between the novel and film). I was also curious what you yourself thought of the actual film as opposed to the article. Please feel free to email me at zahir13@gmail.com. Zahir13 21:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Vampires. I'm not sure but I think Love At First Bite was probably the first time vampires attended a disco on film. Although one just might consider the nightclub in Ringo Starr's Son of Dracula to barely qualify.

The first "face altering" vamp I can recall is from the 1950s film Blood of Dracula (it was kinda like a female "I Was a Teenage Vampire"). The cheerleader in question became very batlike in appearance when she "vamped out." After that, I think it would be probably be the t.v. series Buffy.

I think. <g> Zahir13 04:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the news! Been away from the internet for a time. Zahir13 01:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burlesque edit

In reference to your edit to the burlesque site, for starters, you didn't cite and credible sources and I felt your explanation was meek and moot. So we can play edit wars or you can find a credible source to back your claim. Otherwise, I can change it as long as you want to go back and forth. --Signaleer 05:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Once again, please refer to the burlesque dicssion page for another comment I have posted there, please stop vandalizing site. --Signaleer 16:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

In reference to your threat: "If you keep accusing me of vandalism I will refer you to the admins. Colin4C 16:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)" I say go for it, you are clearly deleting valid information on the Burlesque site. Let me further remind you that the defition on vandalism.

"willful wanton and malicious destruction of the property of others."
WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University

--Signaleer 16:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Its not a threat. You have breached wikipedia guidelines by referring to me as a vandal, when all I did was a reasonable edit, giving my reasons in the talk page, deleting info which is both POV and false. Deleting false and POV info is not vandalism according to wikipedia guidelines. Colin4C 16:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It's not a reasonable nor a credible edit, your explanation for deletion has personal POV implications. Please refer to your own edits. You are helping in the "destruction of property of others" so according to my own personal point of view, you are a vandal in my eyes. --Signaleer 16:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for butting in. Burlesque and tableaux girlie shows conformed to the legal situation at the time, and in their particular locale. That meant they had to titillate through suggestion, and (indeed) theatre. The phrase Colin appears to object to is simply perjurative towards modern strippers. Yes, you might be right about the sleazier sort of dive, but Colin does have a point with regard to theatres that continue the Burlesque and Vaudeville traditions, but are now allowed to go much further; examples that spring to mind are the Windmill and Moulin Rouge. I don't think the sentence would be missed, it adds nothing. Looking at the Burlesque link at the bottom of the article (a not particularly helpful external link), their new burlesque shows include strippers, who disrobe to the buff. I think if Signaleer were to rephrase so the sentence is not derogative, that would be acceptable to all. If you follow the link to striptease, you will also see examples claiming to be modern burlesque shows.
I'd also suggest you both cool down a little! Kbthompson 16:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The explanation that the user Colin4C used was a poor explanation for removing the comment. On the history tab of Burlesque the reason for the removal of the sentence was:

"(cur) (last) 12:28, 31 December 2006 Colin4C (Talk | contribs) (Deleted somewhat POV distinction between striptease and burlesque, in my experience most burlesque performers are also 'ordinary strippers' and not ashamed of the fact)"

So you're saying that your personal experience is valid enough to remove what I have said, your point of view and personal bias, is more valid than what the majority think--what I said in the first place. I think not.

If you Kbthompson, would like to edit the sentence so as not to offend the angry and immature Colin4C, by all means, please have at it. --Signaleer 17:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The user Kbthompson has changed the Burlesque site, please do not remove his changes, thanks. --Signaleer 17:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

You (Signaleer) have unjustifiably called me a vandal (several times), 'angry' 'immature' etc etc. I have not responded in kind and have treated you with courtesy and respect. So come to your own conclusion as to who has 'thrown the toys out of the pram'. You are breaching wikipedia guidelines against personal abuse of other editors. Colin4C 17:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Again, if you want to report me, go for it. If you want to take things personal and go through the Wikipiedia "authorities" then by all means, you have that right as a user to exercise those privillages. --Signaleer 17:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confussion towards different topics and subjects

In reference to your comment about viewing the wiki site for the Windmill Theatre article. It has nothing to do with vaudeville or burlesque. It still does not convince me that your point of view that burlesque is merely strippers. --Signaleer 17:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Bottom line, this discussion with me is terminated--your point about burlesque in reference to strippers is moot. Have a nice day. --Signaleer 20:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lenin article

There is a massive POV effort at the Lenin article in concern to the "Red Terror" section where someone is citing ridiculously partisan material. Can we have some assistance from you? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FBabeuf (talk • contribs) 18:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

Note that the above user has been reported for both 3RR and WP:SOCK. He's removing western sources and replacing them with Soviet/Russian sources, and several editors with standing have restored the western sources (while generally leaving the other edits alone). The reversion activities have revolved primarily around the removal/restoration of sources for figures used in the article. Any help or suggestions would be useful. Rklawton 19:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dracula

Hi Colin, I've been away so did not respond sooner to your message re the discussion on the Dracula talk page. I agree with your comments that there is a need for a separate Dracula article to reflect the fact that the character has evolved into a separate entity that deviates far from Stoker's creation. Information superfluous to the original novel could then be pruned from the article, resulting in a more concise piece.

By the way, I missed the new BBC adaptation over the holidays. Was it any good? Natalieduerinckx 21:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

So I didn't miss much then. It will no doubt be repeated anyway. Natalieduerinckx 14:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burkers!

You wrote :-

No need to burden yourself on my account Kb.....but....Just a bit bothered about 'The Jago' (aka 'The Boundary Estate'). I guess, if it is not indeed an entity in itself, it must be in Bethnal Green, certainly over the Shoreditch boundary. 'Bethnal Green' seems such an amorphous area though....however I'm not a born and bred East-Ender, so what do I know...I was also looking unsuccesfully for a reference to the 'London Burkers' (Bishop and Head) who conducted their body-snatching activities in this area (see 'The Italian Boy' by Sarah Wise)Colin4C 10:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I wrote Columbia Road Market. That's all I've got for the moment. NB: John Bishop and Thomas Williams. Again, information from Sarah Wise and [8]. Kbthompson 12:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please join the discussion at Talk:Anti-Catholic satire and humor

User:PelleSmith has expressed the opinion that the Spanish Inquisition routine isn't really anti-Catholic. As I have suggested before, it really belongs in an article titled something like Humor about the Catholic Church because, in my opinion, that routine isn't mean-spirited enough. The same is true of the Father Guido Sarducci routine. I'm not sure about the Father Ted series. It appears to be borderline. I may have to go borrow the DVD from the library and form a more informed opinion. --Richard 16:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Britannia ...

You talking to me? Heh, you talking to me? 8^) Yes, the Britannia put on proper plays, but it opened as a music hall - and like much of the business had upmarket pretensions. They simply weren't allowed to put on proper plays until the revocation of the licensed theatre acts - which wasn't until after they opened. How do you explain the presence of music hall acts - like Vesta Tilley and Arthur Lloyd on the programme? Like with the National Standard, I think you have too narrow a definition of what constitutes music halls. Sarah Lane was definitely a showgirl, not a Thespian.

BTW: I think the actual music hall article would benefit from sub-sections, the development page is now way too long. Try by Saloon style, theatre style and Edwardian - and you'll see the Britannia presages a lot of those developments.

So, is it to be settled by kippers at dawn?Kbthompson 16:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

These early saloons were the forerunners of the music halls, having a particular licence which, whilst preventing the performance of Shakespeare, allowed the consumption of food and drink. 17:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The old saloon was closed in 1858, and some adjacent houses were bought, on the site of which the Britannia Theatre arose. Here every variety of entertainment was given ----"Pepper's Ghost," giants, acrobats, swimmers, Tom King, the pugilist, &-co. (ibid) Kbthompson 17:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

On 15 July 1867, play 4 on the bill at the Britannia was Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, written by a certain W.Shakespeare. Monsieur Elliot and Mademoiselle Frederika, the champion skaters of England provided the entertainment, together with George Buckstone, the celebrated comic vocalist from the Alhambra Palace, and Mr and Mrs P. McHaffie, the original funny couple.
Apropos of nothing, I love the play performed from 16-23 Sept 1895 - Did you ever send your wife to Chingford? Kbthompson 01:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whitechapel

Hello. Please see the Talk page for Whitechapel. Thx. JDG 09:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

How's it hanging, you've been awfully quiet lately, quite unlike you? (Actually, that goes for both of you!) Kbthompson 00:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gaiety Theatre, London

Gaiety Theatre, London is being rewritten, not badly, but it has a very American PoV, you may wish to cast a beady and critical eye over it! Kbthompson 16:46, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

You must take a look at Knights Templar and related areas, for the unholy row that's breaking out; if only for the fact it doesn't involve you. Somebody is insisting on their modern existence. Kbthompson 01:02, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Stepney & Whitechapel music halls, poss of interest. Kbthompson 20:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dracula

Hi Colin, I noticed your comments on the Dracula talk page. I'm glad to see you are back maintaining rigorous academic standards as well as guarding the page from the goths! My feeling is that Stoker had extensive knowledge of the period, but used his artistic licence to facilitate the plot. It is fascinating to see how he combined history and folklore to create a seminal work of literature. The subtext of Stoker's somewhat ambivalent experience as an 'Anglo-Irish' man during a period of emerging Irish nationalism, (rather like Le Fanu) only adds to the richness of the text...By the way I am the same Natalie, I changed my name to a pseudonym for privacy reasons. Natalie West 01:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Navigation box

Template:West End Theatres has been added to West End (and Beyond West End) theatres, it appears at the bottom of the page. I doubt the benefit to roll out to all the Fringe and Suburban theatres, but they are listed. Pls let me know if you have any comments. The idea came from a 'linked to' in someone's user area, but the code for this was nicked from WWII! When I have sufficiently recovered, I shall consider doing one for former theatres of London. Kbthompson 00:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why do you keep removing my list of gothic quailities??

title says it all Smashman2004 (talk • contribs • email) 19:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Well if you would call my teacher a source then yes, however the list of 'qualities' are not actually qualities at all! Smashman2004 (talk • contribs • email) 20:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources and citation practice

Please see User talk:JPD - item added today. Cosmopolitancats 12:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

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