Talk:Colt Single Action Army
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[edit] Main title for this piece
As I write this, Colt Peacemaker and Single Action Army are synonyms for this article; the current title Colt Single Action Army handgun is almost certainly not the most common name. I needed to do this change to disambiguate Peacemaker. Someone who cares about this page chould fix it. ---- Charles Stewart 18:26, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- The current title seems preferable. Mike Wilson 07:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Could someone include a bit of information on the origin of the name "peacemaker"? I find it sort of strange that the term gets used in the first sentence but never gets explained in the article. I looked a bit online but couldn't find a source on the name. 74.99.18.250 09:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
The Colt SAA Mod 1873 was developed in 1872 to replace the so called "Open Top" Mod. 1872 cal .44. The first term used by Colt and the Army to differentiate it from the "Open Top" was "Strap Pistol", strap referred to the solid top-strap above the cylinder. Later, the term used by the factory was "Model "P". Following the adoption by the War Departement, the SAA was advertised for sale by B. Kittredge & Co., Cincinnati as THE PEACEMAKER. (84.227.136.89 11:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC))
[edit] Case Volume
"However, because that load pushed the chamber pressure limit of the original 1873 revolvers the government cut the powder charge down to 36 grains (2.3 g) of FFg black powder, which gave the bullet the 800 to 900 ft/s (240 to 270 m/s) muzzle velocity."
Actually the powder charge was reduced because of case design changes. The earlier brass cartridge casings utilized a balloon head design which has a 40 grain case volume. Modern .45 lc cartridges use a different design which is stronger but has slightly less internal volume.
[edit] Safety Warning
SAFETY WARNING: From 1973 to present, Ruger has been building 45LC gun on frames able to take 44Mag power levels and slightly higher - the Blackhawk, SuperBlackhawk, Redhawk, SuperRedHawk and "Original Vaquero". Colt also shipped some Anacondas (a large DA revolver) in 45LC. Some smaller ammunition vendors have been selling "45LC+P" where "+P" means "extra pressure", usually marking it "Ruger ONLY" for use in these abnormally strong (for the caliber) firearms. This ammunition will turn an original Single Action Army into a hand grenade, and damage or possibly grenade a modern post-WWII SAA and its clones/near clones. To complicate things further, in 2005 Ruger shipped the "New Vaquero" in .45LC (and .357) on a smaller frame similar to the SAA and unable to take "Ruger ONLY" loads, despite being a Ruger. Buffalo Bore and Cor-Bon are probably the biggest vendors of this "45LC" ammunition, with pressures up to 34,000psi. Buffalo Bore has a 325grain load at over 1,300fps in 45LC+P. Do not load this ammunition into a SAA.
The information here is not really relevant to the article, and the safety warning is made redundant by the disclaimers at the bottom of every page. That said, if someone can produce evidence that some of this information is relevant to this article, by all means let him do so. Tenebrous 14:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Its Name
The term "Army" originally referred to the weapon's caliber. Back in the beginning, the U.S. Army liked to order its revolvers in .45 caliber, while the Navy preferred a .36. Thus, the two calibers of revolver came to be known as "Army" and "Navy." It would be great if a knowledgable person would compose a page about the Colt Navy, a great gun in itself. Cranston Lamont 05:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. I seem to remember that the Army, and particular the cavalry, preferred pistols of .45 caliber from the supposition that at least this size was required to effectively dispatch a wounded horse! Obviously, not a problem for the Navy. I wish I could reference that fact, but at the moment can't seem to find it. SBHarris 23:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
- Army usually referred to a .44 caliber and Navy to a .36 caliber, in the cap and ball single action revolvers of the earlier cap and ball golden era that lasted from 1851 until 1873. (The older 1851 Navy with its octagonal barrel was manufactured even after the round-barreled Navy 1861 came out; both were in .36 caliber.) The "Navy" revolvers were as popular as the "Army" revolvers in the Old West. Yaf 05:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Exotic Black Powder?
"..the most exotic being the Black Powder model.." What does that mean? When the Colt came out in 1873 all guns were black powder, including cartridge guns. This bizarre statement makes no sense, so I removed it. If the person chooses to re-add it, please explain what it's supposed to mean.
- There are two frame designs for the Single Action Army. The original design used a screw setup to secure the cylinder pin into the frame and are referred to as the "Black powder model". Later versions of the Peacemaker used a different and generally preferred button arrangement. The later version, having been in production much longer, are far more common. (Jeff the Baptist 22:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC))
[edit] Rewrite, references and reorganization
Being such an important firearm, this whole article needs a rewrite to a more easily readable and organized format. I also suggest separating some of the more detailed information on the .45 Colt round itself, including the discussion on .45ACP, to the already existing article on the .45 Colt Cartridge and include a "see here" link to it.
Some references should also be cited, for example, for the different calibers and years in which those calibers became available. Was the SAA originally produced in .45LC? Reference? Was the original Colt factory designation for the new model the "Peacemaker"? When was it first called the "Single Action Army" and by whom?
I will try to make changes if/when i find pertinent sources on the history of the SAA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.205.138.69 (talk) 06:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Ammunition
The ammunition spends far too much time talking about .45 ACP ammo, which I found darn confusing. I caught myself scrolling up to check if I was actually reading the article I intended, because the first half of the ammo sections spends a large portion of its space chatting about an ammo type that is not related to the peacemaker. Dxco 20:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
- Well, that's because for most of the 20th century, if you said ".45" or even "Colt .45" you were talking about a cartridge not used for this weapon, but rather the cut-off .30-06 used for the .45 automatic pistol or the Tommygun, and formally called the .45 ACP. So some distinction has to be made between this very popular .45 (which is the only one most people know) and the .45 Long Colt of blackpowder days, which was what was mostly used in the Peacemaker. But do feel free to move the paragraphs around or re-size, until you like the result better. Remember, WP:BOLD is the same as WP:SOFIXIT SBHarris 21:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
