Talk:Colossal Cave Adventure
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It's amazing how much trivial knowledge one accumulates over the years. --Uncle Ed
Wasn't there also a maze of twisty little passages, all the same? -Martin
'all alike', yes. It's rather better known, as it comes early in the game. Matthew Woodcraft
moved from Talk:Plugh
I spent a whole day one at the computer center (in 1974!!) creating a complete map of Collossal Cave. It took 4 sheets of line printer paper.
Surely it was this level of attention to detail that made me what I am now :-) Uncle Ed
My brother was a computer programmer back in the days when they used stacks of cards. He introduced me to the cave. He was utterly astounded when I solved his fissure problem with "wave wand" - blimey, what else do you with a wand?
HOWEVER, my reason for bursting into print here is that the top outside link - supposedly to an online version - is now the splash page for a car-body protectant, with this opening line:
This site is designed for New Car Dealers and their representatives.
- Another tribute to the game, but disappointing to devotees!
- robinp 21:54, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I believe many people called this genre "Text Adventures." So it might be worth mentioning somewhere?
[edit] Dwarves in original version?
The interactive fiction article describes Crowther's original version of Adventure as "more or less realistic," stating that later reviser Don Woods added fantasy elements like LOTR. This article states that Crowther's version of the game, however, "[featured] ... fantasy elements such as axe throwing dwarves." Did the dwarves come in in Crowther's original version, or was that part of Woods' additions? Jdavidb 19:17, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- There were no dwarves in the original, it was a simulation of a real cave. Mark Richards 15:18, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Mark, it's not correct that Crowther's original game was simply a simulation. In his capacity as a cartographer for the Cave Research Foundation, Crowther created a realistic hand-drawn map based on survey data and his own extensive knowledge of that area. He then stopped caving with CRF abruptly, and began creating the text game, which did follow the realistic topography of the map, AND included fantasy elements. Don Woods certainly expanded the fantasy. --Dennis G. Jerz 00:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)--
I came across a version of this game where if you type a swear word it replies "careful, the dwarves have virgin ears"
[edit] XYZZY redirects to this article
Mark my words: I was sorely tempted to replace the redirect with the words "nothing happens." --Ardonik(talk) 17:33, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Maze of twisty little passages
In my version (Graham Nelson's one for Inform) there are only eleven variations, not twelve. The phrase "little twisting maze of passages" is not present. Perhaps this one was a later addition? Eric119 23:19, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Dates
There seems to be a bit of confusion about the dates that various early versions were created. The article originally stated that Crowther created his vector maps in 1972 but the game (which was completely separate) was available from 1975, with Woods releasing his version in 1976. The adventure game article (before it was removed in an unrelated edit) claimed that Crowther's version was in 1972 and that Woods discovered the game 4 years later (in 1976). Is there a reliable source of info for this, and also for the 'dwarf elements' that the article claims were added by Crowther (although it is more likely to be Woods)? (see above). --HappyDog 00:01, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Anecdotal paragraphs in article - thoughts?
I have just removed The following text from the article page, as it is largely anecdotal in nature, however I think some of the information about the naming of rooms etc. could be incorporated into the article if it can be verified. -- HappyDog 04:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
According to caver Mel Park:
"Bedquilt was Willie (Crowther)'s favorite part of the cave system. I still have a copy of his map of it. Computer types who grew up exploring ADVENTURE don't realize how accurately the game represents passages in Bedquilt Cave.
"Yes, there is a Hall of the Mountain King and a Two-Pit Room. The entrance is indeed a strong steel grate at the bottom of a twenty-foot depression.
Mel describes how caver Bev Schwartz got her start:
"On a survey trip to Bedquilt, a member of my party mentioned she would one day like to go on a trip to Colossal Cave, where she understood the game ADVENTURE was set.
"No, I said, the game is based on Bedquilt Cave and we are going there now. Excitement!
"Throughout the cave, she kept up a constant narrative, based on her encyclopedic knowledge of the game. In the Complex Room (renamed Swiss Cheese Room in Advent) she scrambled off in a direction I had never been.
"'I just had to see Witt's End,' she said upon returning. "It was exactly as I expected."
"When we finished with our work, I let her lead out, which she did flawlessly, again because she had memorized every move in the game. Believe me, the cave is a real maze, and this was an impressive accomplishment for a first-time visitor."
[edit] Other ports
I recall playing this on a Commodore PET but I can't find any reference to this version: anyone else have a clue? (FWIW I was spectacularly bad at it, but in my defence I was only 11 years old :-) --Phil | Talk 10:35, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
Over 30 years later, I believe it's safe to come out of the closet. I believe that I was probably the first to port Advent to the CDC 6000/Cyber 70 series of machines running SCOPE 3.4 or NOS/BE 1.0 sometime early in 1976. I obtained a PDP-10 tape from a friend who at the time was a field engineer with DEC. I translated the tape into CDC Display code and modified the program to compile and run with FTN 4.0.
I seriously thought that I would get fired, as the game spread like wildfire with many hours of CPU time getting wasted by employees at the Sunnyvale Systems Division. Naturally, copies made it to Arden Hills ChuckGuzis 02:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Chuck
[edit] In-line binary file
It is clearly inappropriate to include a link to a binary file in-line with the text for an article (and yes, a gzipped file is a binary file, even if its contents are not). Anyone clicking on that link would be expecting further information about that particular version of the game, not a direct link to its source code. In fact I can't see why 98% of readers would be interested in a link to the source code at all! As a compromise I have moved the link to the 'external links' section of the article, although I am firmly in favour of removal, or at least linking to a page that contains further links to all available ports. --HappyDog 18:29, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Plugh
In the Plugh subsection, there is a one line paragraph that states:
- Some games recognize "plugh" and will respond to it, usually by making a joke.
Does this mean other games that are not versions of Adventure? cf Zork's response to 'XYZZY'. Just looking for clarification. LarryMac 23:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Not all games are simply variants of Colossal Caves adventure (ADVENT). Zork (DUNGEON) info can be found elsewhere on Wikipedia.
BTW I'm somewhat disappointed with the lack of 'hgulp' references here.
- Well thanks, anonymous unsigned person, but perhaps my question was not clear. However, my point was that I don't think the quoted sentence from the article is clear. The preceding paragraph in the "Plugh" section was referring to various versions of Adventure, then we have this new sentence that just says "some games". As written, it could have meant "some of the many variations on this particular game." The subsequent section about "XYZZY" specifically mentions "Many other interactive fiction games contain responses to the command XYZZY as a tribute to Adventure," which makes the reference explicit.
- In any event, the footnote that has been added in the year+ since I asked the question makes the situation much clearer. In fact, I might rewrite that offending sentence now. --LarryMac 21:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Kingdom of Loathing
We need a consensus on whether to include the information about the online game Kingdom of Loathing. Either the word plugh or xyzzy is involved in this game, but some say that it is a secret and should not be published in Wikipedia. Others notice that the information is missing from the article, and immediately add it. The comment has popped in and out of the history twice, as it has been added and deleted. There is also a lack of clarity as to whether it is plugh or xyzzy that is involved. I have seen the claim that it used to be plugh, and is now xyzzy, but at one point that was changed to the statement that it is plugh. - J Alexander D Atkins 11:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
- Related to this, an anon just added the following: "plugh is the new secret cheat in the strange leaflet for kingdom of loathing." I am moving that here because it isn't verified. If it can be, I have no objection to having it added back, phrased in a way that gives it context. Jonathunder 02:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
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- The code used to be xyzzy. Over a year ago (actually, nearly two now), it was changed to the other. It is considered an Easter egg by the admins of the game, and spoiling it is highly frowned upon. Even notable spoiler sites like KoL Coldfront and the KoL Wiki are loathe to spoiler it. Yes, I can verify it.. No, I don't think it belongs in the article. --Blu Aardvark | (talk) | (contribs) 01:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Elves?!
Were there really elves in the game? Maybe in 550 rather than 350? I just got done with 350 (again), and I swear: no elves nor mention of elves.
- At least one longer version had elves. Jonathunder 02:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
- I suspect you are thinking of the version by Level 9, which had an extended endgame where you have to free some elves from being imprisoned by dwarves. This was a commercial version which ran on a number of early 80's home computers (Sinclair Spectrum, Commodore 64, BBC Micro etc) and is almost certainly the best-known version in the UK. Jon Rob 08:55, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
It's part of a static message that signals a final win -- "[A] cheering band of friendly elves carry the conquering adventurer off into the sunset." --Dennis G. Jerz 00:08, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- Which simply begs the question again, in what version? --Mathwizard1232 05:11, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Citation in lead
To whoever (IP) left the note in the lead P about there being a source in the other article for that (citation needed) spot - I looked, and I added that in as a cite for the sentence above, but that wasn't actually what I'd meant needed one. I was referring directly to that "it was so accurate that experienced cavers were able to find their way around...", which that source doesn't cover (well, it may in the book, but if so the other article doesn't mention that). So I'm still leaving the needed tag on there. -Goldom ��� ⁂ 00:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] XYZZY
Thought I had some info, I remembered a bot in Unreal Tournament 2004 having a similar name. Found that it was "Syzygy" which is awfully close. Oh well. --Kirbysuperstar 13:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
In the popular IRC client, mIRC, typing /xyzzy will "echo" the words "Nothing happens." This is one of its easter eggs or cookies.
[edit] Image
I don't believe there should be an image of a graphical version of Colossal Cave used in this article, as the game was initially released and is primarily known as a text adventure. I recommend the image be therefore replaced by that of a sample text screen. 23skidoo 16:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Bootif and other items in Adventure
I played a version on the Georgia Tech Cyber 74 (big CDC time-sharing machine) in the late 1970's, perhaps the mentioned F77 version (FORTRAN appeared to be the most-used and best-supported high-level language on that computer) or a variation. At a certain location the game said "There is a bootif here." So, what is a bootif and what can you do with it? If you "<f-word> bootif" it would respond with (perhaps not the exact words) "So you have discovered that the Bootif is a beautiful [bootiful?] woman!" and not object to the use of the obscenity in this particular case.
I'm not sure how or if this tidbit should be added to the article, as the only reference is my memory, though I knew others who played this version and could verify this if I knew how to contact them.
I also remember many of the items that could be found: keys, coins, lantern, vending machine somewhere in the twisty passages (sells batteries when fed coins, to replace the lantern's batteries when its light goes dim), etc., and that you could only 'carry' a certain number of items (perhaps five or seven?) at one time. These are very much an integral part of the game, and part of the goal was to figure out what you needed to carry where to get you through the whole game (which I never quite did). The entry Adventure game mentions early "Text adventures" but also does not mention such items or how they are involved in playing. I think this should be included in the main article (either here or perhaps better in the generic Adventure game entry), as it will give a much better "feel" of how the game is played for anyone who hasn't played such a game, showing how it involves logic, learning and deduction about the game's aspects, and that it's not just figuring out which way to go in an invisible maze. Benbradley 03:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Swearing and "Watch it!"
The game responds to a frustrated player's swearing with watch it!
I remember in the Commodore 16 version the response was: WATCH IT! THE WIZARD IS WATCHING YOU!
Can anyone confirm if this was the definitive response on other platforms? --Air 17:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 350 points
From out of nowhere the article starts talking about the "definitive 350 point version" and the "550 point version" and so forth. This doesn't make any sense because there's no context. I assume it refers to the greatest number of points you can amass, but it's not made clear. I think this has arisen because the people writing this article are too familiar with the subject. -Ashley Pomeroy 17:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Early versions
I've been looking at the Fortran source for ADVENT.EXE (the version that Don Woods wrote for the DECsystem-10, referred to here as the "350-point version", which I played on a DECsystem-10 no later than 1977) and it may be worth adding something to the page to correct the misapprehension shown in reference 5 that Jim Gillogly wrote the game's introduction crediting Don for the "features". Here's the comment block from the source:
1 THIS PROGRAM WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED BY WILLIE CROWTHER. MOST OF THE
1 FEATURES OF THE CURRENT PROGRAM WERE ADDED BY DON WOODS (DON @ SU-AI).
1 CONTACT DON IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ETC.
This was in the code before Jim made his translation into C.
The source code for this version is publicly available from Phil Budne's PDP10 ftp page at ftp://ftp.ultimate.com/pdp10/ Kay Dekker 20:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Video" game?
Funny, when I played it on a teletype, I don't remember seeing a monitor anywhere! A final indignity for the early days, sigh... Stan 15:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
