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John Woodward, A Treatise on Ecclesiastical Heraldry, W & A.K. Johnston: Edinburgh, 1894. Plate XIX.

John Woodward (1837-1898) [1]

The late Mr. Woodward left us an interresting drawing but no pope ever used a coat of arms like these! In a papal coat of arms there are no supporters. The patriarchal crosses with an extra arm are inventions of the artist. A pope uses a simple latin cross as a sign of his office and this latin cross is not part of his coat of arms... Robert Prummel 23:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The papal coat of arms can be depicted with Angels as supporters, as for instance here and here. The depiction is up to the artist's imagination, to be sure. The article by Arthur Charles Fox-Davies in the old 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia mentions the 3-traverse cross, supporting Woodward's book. Gimmetrow 00:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

That is an authoritative source indeed!But is it right? The popes use a latin cross if a cross is to be carried in front of them. The eminent catholic heraldic scholar archbisshop Bruno Bernard Heim states that "a triple cross may have been used as a papal emblem but this was due to the ignorance of the artist . It has never been part of the papal coat of arms or a papal emblem".

Source:"Heraldry in the catholic church". Now who is right? The archbisshop or Arthur Charles Fox-Davies? It is worth an investigation. We have to take into account though that heraldry was in a crisis in the 19th. century.I propose that we limit the " papal coats of arms" to those that were used by the pontiffs themselves. Maybe artists have felt the need to embellish this rather simple coat of arms. Robert Prummel 02:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Priests do not use supporters in the heraldry of the church. Supporters may be used by stonemasons and sculptors when depicting coats of arms on facades and monuments but that is, though it is architectonically understandable and pleasing to the eye, artistic licence. An angel or saint (but never an evangelist!) can be used to hold the shield in an ex libris though. But that is for personal and informal use only and the arms on seals, documents and churches have to be in accordance with the ecclasiastical rules and traditions.Robert Prummel 02:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

P.P.S.S. I am impressed with the monsignor article! In the article on ecclasiastical heraldry in the Dutch Wiki I erred because the complexity of these titles. The page that you seem to have contributed to is a great help!

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(del) (cur) 14:38, 27 January 2007 . . Gimmetrow (Talk | contribs) . . 532×458 (75,812 bytes) (John Woodward, ''A Treatise on Ecclesiastical Heraldry'', W & A.K. Johnston: Edinburgh, 1894. Plate XIX. John Woodward (1837-1898) [http://www.heraldry.ca/library/library.htm])