Talk:Cluster headache

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[edit] Misdiagnosis Article at WHA

I was researching cluster headaches and I found Vast Majority of Cluster Headache Patients Are Initially Misdiagnosed. In short it says that most doctors were unable to properly identify cluster headache in the majority of patients. Some were led to unnecessary surgery or otherwise given improper therapy. It also states that 16% of the people in the study made their own diagnosis. I thought this would be good information for the article but I can't find a nice spot to put it. Hopefully someone in the future can integrate this. Triddle 19:23, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Could you search Pubmed for the relevant reference? That makes inclusion much easier. JFW | T@lk 09:54, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I can't find a reference to that article on pubmed but pubmed does reference the International Headache Society diagnostic criteria for cluster headache. The report is given to us by the World Headache Alliance which is linked to by IHS with the following qualification: Headache sufferers and their families, or any non-medical person with an interest in this topic, can find information more relevant to their needs at the World Headache Alliance website. That's the strongest reference I can find with my limited medical knowledge. Triddle 22:54, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Link Dispute

Why delete the link to the Cluster Headache Book at med-owl? According to the admin who has twice deleted this link, "let's not advertise other wikis unless very notable in the CH patient community (quod non))." Some thoughts: 1) the fact that another website is a wiki should be irrelevant - would it be better if I put the same information into plain html instead? 2) the page in question is in fact a unique and valuable source of information for the cluster headache community.

Floridian | Talk -- 13:27, July 6, 2005 (signed for the original poster by Wulf January 06)

Here's a quote from the "Cluster Headache Book": "One supplier that has been recommended by several people in the kudzu thread is Vitacost.com Their prices are excellent and they ship to over 50 countries. " The site appears to be nothing more than an "informational storefront" for a vitacost affiliate. Floridian is always on top of the current research on CH but the online book with plugs for vitamin shops worked into the text is inappropriate. The advertising and editorial content must be kept separate. I don't want to get into a revert war, so I'll leave it until Floridian can respond. THB 17:52, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia stated policy is to avoid "Links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services" and Links to sites with objectionable amounts of advertising. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided) The CH Book does not primarily exist to sell products or services. The term 'objectionable amount of advertising' is subjective, but comparable with other sites that have not been de-listed. In the case cited above, there have been many people in countries where kudzu is not easily available that have asked about that product, and the fact that a company will ship internationally is a practical issue for patients considering that treatement option.It is one of the largest collections of information on CH written by a patient. Floridian -- Dec 2006)

[edit] Not sure where to put this

I was diagnosed with cluster headaches, thought it was just a "go away" diagnosis, looked it up on internet and had most of the symptoms, one of the symptoms that isn't mentioned in the article is holding your head in your hands and rocking back and forward which I hadn't mentioned to doctor but I think is quite a good indicator. Think it should be mentioned as a symptom. http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00487.html Also thought that smoking was related to occurence which is also not mentioned. http://www.webmd.com/content/article/46/1826_50688.htm ps it really really does hurt, but 100 times the pain of anything else seems non Wiki standards, why not 1000.

in regard to the "head in hands" suggestion, that would be a sign of a cluster headache, not a symptom. ie, it's something that people show, they don't say "dr i'm holding my head in my hands, what's wrong with me... "

[edit] Featured article

This article should be honed to a standard that would allow it to be the featured article on the front page of Wikipedia so that thousands of people will read it. It will need some illustrations.

[edit] Additional fact

A patient of Dr. Robert Nett, a headache specialist, reports that Dr. Nett has said that although CH's are not a commonly occuring condition, is still ranked as the 5th leading cause of suicide among adult males. Those sufferers are usually ones for whom the condition became chronic, without the periods of complete remissinon between clusters of attacks.

I could not find any stats about suicide causes in adult males to verify this.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.174.156.30 (talk • contribs). 16:42, 30 March 2006
A search of PubMed for "cluster headache suicide" gives 5 hits. One of which reviewed world literature on prevalance rates (PMID 16856701). PMID 737393 makes interesting reading re treatment of patients who have suicidal ideation. PMID 16492244 has potentially relevant title of "Cluster: a potentially lethal headache disorder." but no abstract listed by PubMed (online version requires subscription). David Ruben Talk 01:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other names for cluster headache

According to Silberstein, Lipton, and Goadsby, Horton's Headache actually is an older term for cluster headache.

Older Terms for Cluster Headache • Erythroprosopalgia of Bing

• Ciliary neuralgia

• Migrainous neuralgia

• Erythromelagia of the head

• Horton's headache

• Histaminic cephalalgia

• Petrosal neuralgia ore spenopalatine neuralgia

• Vidian neuralgia

• Sluder's neuralgia

• Hemicrania angioparalyticia


Stephen D. Silberstein, Richard B. Lipton. Peter J. Goadsgy. "Headache in Clinical Practice." Second edition. Taylor & Francis. 2002.

[edit] Awesome illustration

That is an unbelievably awesome illustration. Please don't remove it. Ever. -Toptomcat 01:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove the Illustration

I propose to remove that creepy illustration/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hawaiianchief (talk • contribs) 08:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

It is an amazing illustration, but I would happily sign a petition to move it elsewhere on the page - not the main graphic. 82.40.75.55 12:34, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep - the illustration is fine and in its current location. It is no more creepy than anatomical pictures and gives a clear indication of the type & severity of the problem; indeed I suspect most sufferers would rate the picture as a somewhat gentile underplay of the real severity of an attack. Its location is I feel also appropriate for the same reasons - i.e. in forms an opening backdrop for the discussion that follows. David Ruben Talk 12:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - the illustration "beautify" encapsulates what I feel when I get one. Jdanb 01:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep absolutely, unless someone has something better with which to replace it. Cluster headaches are creepy. t h b 01:19, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Remove. The illustration is thoroughly unencyclopedic. -- Earle Martin [t/c] 17:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
    • You are entirely entitled your own opinion in this straw poll, but I would be interested to know why you think the picture is "unencyclopedic" (vs a personal feeling of either not very good, or non-representative of the condition) ? David Ruben Talk 21:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  • STRONG KEEP. Typically I would agree that it should be deleted. But, consider this (and anyone suffering from CH please chime in). When trying to help others understand various conditions people try to give anaolgies or such. For my asthma I tell non-asthmatics to close their nose and breath for 5 minutes through a normal drinking straw. That helps. This illustration is far better than the cliche "ice-pick in the temple". I saw that illustration and cringed because it made the pain's severity and horrid nature very easily understandable to my co-workers (they are CH-free). It is not strictly encyclopedic on the surface...but it is in the spirit of encyclopedic because that picture can let the non-CH sufferer visualize them. All it needs now is that guy jabbing a spike through the eye--but that may be too over-the-top. -- Tony 19:15, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spamming by Teri Robert

Teri Robert has been spamming links to aboutDOTcom as well as her own personal website selling her book. Please remove any commercial links in this article.

See: Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links, the external links guideline and spam policies for further explanations of links that are considered appropriate. -THB 05:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


I have NOT been spamming. Period. If I broke a rule, I apologize. There is no need for this attack. Take a look at my contributions over the last couple of months. I have edited pages, written my first new page, and made lots of contributions, but added very few external links.

--TeriRobert 22:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I accept your apology but your behaviour most certainly does constititute link spamming whether you admit it or not. Please don't add inappropriate links in the future nor ask that Wikipedia policy be overlooked because you feel like you deserve an exception to the rules that everyone else must follow. I would also like to remind you that you had already been warned by at least one other person. -THB 22:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Conversations I've had about external links really have not centered on sites I work on or anything like that. I've had some very productive conversations about when external links are relevant, such as when content on any external site can be added to an article instead, that's the way to go. That's why I added "Support and Advocacy" to the link. Those are not part of Wickipedia, but issues important to people with chronic headaches and Migraines. As for selling my book, whether you believe me or not, that had nothing to do with the linking. I understand why you're "peeved," and fully accept your reasoning. On the other hand, I don't think it was necessary to approach this as you have. If you go back and read the comversations I've had with others about external links, you will find that they have never been of this nature.

Again, thank you for accepting my apology, which is sincere. I hope we can move on now.

--TeriRobert 23:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Currently in the news

Check out that BBC article [1]. Hugo Dufort 06:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

The page http://www.webmd.com/content/article/46/1826_50688.htm says that cluster headaches can be 100 times more intense than migraines. Is that true? I seem to get migraines a couple times a year, and let's say they're about 10 times worse than a "regular" headache, or another example they're a couple times worse than a small burn. so cluster headaches would be a few hundred times worse than a small burn. If that's true then wow... 74.104.1.193 06:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC) Jordan

  • I get both, and I think the 100X stat is exagerated. At their worst, the cluster HA pain is very intense, probably several times worse tha worst migraine I have ever had. But Migraines last for hours and sometimes days, and the cluster is usually done in 30 minutes or less. --208.204.155.241 18:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I have suffered various severe burns over the years and also get CH. The only bad burn after getting CH is burning all the skin off my thumb. It happened perhaps a month after a long CH cycle. I didn't even flinch as all skin shriveled and shrunk before my eyes. I simply thought to myself this is going to burn a bit and proceeded to treat the burn. I don't think it is possible to accurately say one pain is x times worse than another. However if I had to rate it for comparison, there is a ranking system used by CH sufferers know n as the Kip scale. It isn't scientific at all but is definitely very relatable for CH sufferers. It is a simple ranking between 1 to 10 and the ramp ups in pain are certainly not linear. While it is a very different sort of pain, I would rate severe burns about a Kip 4. http://www.clusterheadaches.com/scale.html is a url to the scale. I apologise in advance if this is breaking some wikipedia rule. It should also be noted not every sufferer reacts the same way described on the scale, but I certainly think it helps them convey the severity of a particular headache. Anyway I hope that helps with a comparison, as trying to explain the intensity of the pain to someone without it is one of the biggest problems with CH. 59.167.119.92 11:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I have CH and once in a while migraines strong enough to induce vomiting. I dread the CH, and comparatively I will continue with my yardwork with migraines (with d-a-r-k sunglasses, of course). I have many injuries and only had one thing worse my typical CH...a headache after a seizure. My sister-in-law also has CH and swears they are worse then the pain from delivering any of her children. -- Tony 19:01, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] General Discussion

Personally, I have suffered from CH. At first, I was eating collard greens as temporary relief. I can't explain it but it did soften the pain. The doctor I saw, however, prescribed me beta blockers to take. It's been about 2 years since I've had ANY problems with CH's. Machpovii3...Holla Atcha Bezzle, Kid! 03:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


Glad the beta blockers helped you so much. Calcium channel blockers have, I believe, been shown to be effective more frequently than beta blockers, so if the beta blocker ever stops working for you, it would be worth checking with your doctor aobut a calcium channel blocker such as verapamil.

--TeriRobert 06:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Imaging/Pictures

If somebody wants to use them for this article, I put some images into Wikimedia Commons today:

PET: Activated brain areas during pain




Voxel based morphometry (VBM, structural)




Click on images and see image description for more information.

--Friedrich K. 23:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC) (talk)

Done. --Friedrich K. 08:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anecdotal update to Signs & Symptoms

I am actually in the middle of a particularly bad bout of these this week and was describing it to a co-worker. They thought I was making this up (severity of pain, that arresting the pain early can stop them entirely but beyond a certain point nothing works for the pain, regularity of pain, etc). So I looked it up here for the first time (I usually referred to medical journals or the like). Thank God this article was in good condition...now my co-workers understand why my eye will shut involuntarily when I have "one of my headaches".

One thing I would like to mention (and I have read some journals mentioning this time frame as well, but I'm not looking them up). In the "Signs and symptoms" section it says, "Cluster headache sufferers typically experience...headaches...for fifteen minutes to three hours." Mine range from 15 minutes to several hours, typically, and I have had bouts where the headaches would last 3 or 4 days each. I offer that anecdotally, I have read some reports' findings corraborating that timeframe as well so someone can find that.

That said, I will be adding an edit (and a corresponding 'need source' tag) with this information. -- Tony 18:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

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