Talk:Class consciousness

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[edit] Wrong class structure

The article begins with the idea finding its roots in Marxism, then uses an example that has nothing to do with the Marxist definition.

Even if one were to ignore Marxist analysis to define classes, the ideas of "aristocracy" only remain relevant to a very small minority of the world's population. The ideas of class-consiousness include recognizing, according to Marx, that with the death of feudalism came the death of the old class society. The revolutions in which the bourgeoisie overthrew the aristocracy and established capitalism are over. Now, there is a new upper class and a new lower class. The new upper class being the bourgeoisie, and the lower class being the new proletariat, who did not exist on a large scale under feudalism, and didn't exist at all before its dying breaths. Before that, the economy was peasant-based.

Marx's definitions of today's classes were more clear cut: there is no middle class anymore. That's because class-conscious definitions of society do not rely on quantitative measures of wealth, so much as on qualitative measures of what kind. To Marxists, there are only wealthier workers and poorer bosses. Those two often get mixed up and jumbled together to be defined as "middle class" these days, but if you're writing an article about Marxist ideas of class society, you should at least provide a look at Marxist ideas. To Marxists, the richest worker is still a worker robbed of the full value of his labour, and the poorest boss is still a boss robbing others of theirs.

Over the next few days, I hope to correct this issue, you may revert it back and discuss it here if you have a problem with it.

Thank you.--Che y Marijuana 15:11, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

I agree, this article takes a pretty capitalist stance on class. I've never heard any socialist, Marxist or not, use the term "class consciousness" to refer to a "middle class" realizing their place in society. When socialists talk class, we are talking about the division of society into the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. While I suppose the term "class consciousness" could theoretically be applied to the bourgeoisie, it almost always refers to the proletariat's realization of the aforementioned division of society, as well as the exploitative conditions it creates, and the importance of proletarian solidarity in solving the problem. — Ливай | Ⓣ 14:00, 25 July 2005 (UTC)