Talk:Clan Kerr

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The desrciption of the crest is not right, maybe the picture is actually showing the clan badge rather than the armorial arms. --Alf ^melmac 14:47, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

What is the historical origin and significance of the "sero sed serio" motto -Petroleum

According to http://www.meacock.org/FamilyHistory/Kerrs.htm the motto "SERO SED SERIO" (Late, but in Earnest) is in reference to the Scottish victory over the English at Ancrum Moor (1545). The Kerrs played a decisive part after arriving late in the day." A Kerr

[edit] Left Handed Staircase

This doesn't make any sense to me. Castles spiralled their staircases clockwise ascending so attackers were forced to jab left handed and defenders could jab right handed. Reversing this, while allowing a left hander to defend left handed, allows a normal righthander to jab with his natural hand. So there is no advantaged gained by such design. I wonder if this is simply myth trying to explain a strange stair design. Alci12 14:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Handedness

Actually, the height advantage, combined with the defensive aspect of having the interior staircase wall up against one's shield side, would provide a great benefit for a lefty defending a left-handed staircase.

Additionally, I have seen a study of the Kerrs of Scotland, specifically in regard to handedness. Kerrs in the traditional family homelands are three times as likely to be left-handed as members of other families in the region.

Lefties have always enjoyed an advantage over righties in hand-to-hand combat, as lefties are used to fighting against a right-handed opponent, while the reverse is rarely true.

O. Kerr

The interior protects the shield side of the right hander coming up just as much as the left hander at the top. Height is the advantage for the defender of either hand. It is as I gave above self evidently more advantageous for a right hander -v- right hander or a left-v-left than it could ever be for left -v- right whomsoever is the defender as they both gain normal use of the natural hand. If you can cite a credible accademic study that would indeed be interesting. However even assuming a higher than average number of lefties the majority would still be right handers and they would be disadvantaged by the design.

Wrt to L-handedness generally it is an advantage of sorts - as a fencer I have some experience - though I've certainly heard it much repeated that the number of left handers in medieval times were higher so perhaps the advantage would have been less certain. Proof apart from suits of armor are hard to come by to prove that meaningfully. Alci12 00:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

(First, some disclosure: I'm a right-handed Kerr, but the incidence of left-handedness in my immediate family is 20%.) I grew up hearing stories about the left-handed staircases, but I too fail to see how they would work. I looked for the journal article mentioned in handedness without success (it says that nowadays Kerrs are no more or less likely to be left-handed), and indeed I could find no reputable sources at all on the handedness of Kerrs. The text that had been there was copied directly from a webpage, so obviously it had to go. But the source I cited is not exactly peer-reviewed! Ckerr 13:01, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Strangely enough, the instance of left-handedness in my extended family (of Kerrs) runs at around 60%. Several were actively encourage to use their right hands when they were young, to no avail. Ka-ru 06:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

My father (born 1904) was naturally left handed but was forced to use his right hand during his school days. Consequently he went through life writing right handed but performing many other other tasks with his left. My brother and I are right handed, but both of my children are left handed. (D Kerr)

[edit] Lamarck and the Kerrs

The sole reference provided in the section on left-handed Kerrs mentions that Andrew Kerr "taught" his followers to use their left hands, with the following sentence saying that Kerrs are more likely to be left handed. Taken at face value, this is preposterous Lamarckism. In the absence of a research paper or reliable book which says that Kerrs are more likely to be left-handed, I think all claims of genetic left-handedness need to be avoided. Ckerr 11:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)