Talk:Civil defense

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[edit] Article Merge

Should this article be merged with Civil protection? Both concepts of shielding the population seem to interconnect, though one could argue that CP is more accident-oriented versus CD's managing threats caused by warfare, terrorism and the like. Both articles would benefit from more contributions. Ideas?Scoo 13:06, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Support I completely agree with you, "civil protection" seems to be little more than an alternative term for civil defense. The two articles describe them as if they are exactly the same. I'll propose it. Since civil defense is the more common term and also the more developed article, I'll suggest protection be merged with this article--Wikiwriter706 00:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Support I too agree with the proposed merge. However, Civil Protection is just as common as Civil Defense in Europe. Civil Protection has been used increaslingly post-WW2 to distance the organisation from the military. In addition, civil defense/defence has the spelling issue. I am however happy as long as the articles are merged. --rxnd ( t | € | c ) 13:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Comment: I agree with you that they should be merged, regardless of what term. I do think civil defense is the better term, despite the spelling issue. I'm not especially familiar with the term civil protection, but civil defense seems to be a broader term. 17 Wikipedia pages link to civil protection, almost 100 link to civil defense. Google has 1.5 million more hits for "civil defense" then "civil protection" (and many more for civil defence).--Wikiwriter706 18:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative Spelling

Just want to note that Civil Defence is still in common usage in many countries today, without the war focus. When I have the time, I will do some work on this. Both this page, and emergency preparedness should have main elements combined into the term Emergency Management.

[edit] Article too America-centric.!

The article is too much USA centric, which is NPOV. The truest classical civil defence system was in the soviet bloc, where it was more like a militia organization. America spent very little on CD compared to the commies. In fact USA tried to argue in SALT talks that CD in WARPAC was a kind of strategic weapon itself and so get CD banned, because USA did not want to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on underground shelters for the population. In the eastern bloc CD was mandatory study in secondary school and most storied stone buildings had their basement provided with CD accessories (steel doors, air hoses and connectors for filter drums, airlock loungues, etc). In America most houses are wood, nuke flash would burn them up. The commie underground railway stations were all big bunkers with blast doors, compressors, etc. Public transport was structured for quick evacuation of cities. CD was under military command effecitvely. It was claimed because of eastern bloc CD, soviets would emerge as "winners" after a total thermonuclear war. Of course it is impossible to test this now...

This is true, the article is much too Anglo-American, though I doubt it isnt NPOV. Alot of Soviet CD besides the "usual" stuff like KI and Prussian Blue stockpiles, basic education and shelters were either a state secret which the Russian Federation to this day is protecting, or its a rumor that isnt confirmed, like the rail system mentioned above, so it would be rather difficult to cover the Soviet Bloc's CD plans with actual evidence to back up the rumors which everyone who studies civil defense knows to be true. So I dont think its an argument about NPOV so much as lack of hard evidence to support statements about the Communist Bloc's CD plans. Though this can in reality be said about American CD as well because the cold-war era Emergency Plans Book was reclassified as Secret (though without a known UKUSA Codeword like SPOKE or UMBRA) about a year after it was declassified in the late 90's.

Fadamsxii

I found this article looking for what the prohibited civil defence symbol looks like that the Canadian law states is prohibited for use as a trademark. It was described as a blue triangle on an orange field, and said to be an internationally protected symbol according to the Geneva Convention (similar to the red cross/crescent/diamond/lion and sun). This is quite apparently not the symbol shown on this page though, and doesn't appear to be anywhere at all. --Puellanivis 23:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mustard Gas is Not a "Nerve Gas"

Although this whole article is crap, and needs to be redone, I made a minor edit under the Chemicals sub-section of Threat Assesment that gave mustard gas as an example of a nerve gas. Mustard gas is a vesicant, i.e. blistering agent, and has no direct effects on the nervous system, rather it causes ubiquitous cellular death do to its reactions with guanine (a base of DNA, and therfore vital to the proper functioning of all cells), which is the cause of the blistering.

[edit] Swiss Civil Protection

The Swiss have had effective civil defense for decades. The Federal Office of Civil Protection is in charge of Switzerland's shelter network, which has blast and radiation shelters for 95% of the population. Blast doors and all. With the Soviet threat being less, the shelters are being kept on standby, but they're still there.

Every year, on the first Wednesday in February, all 8,500 sirens in Switzerland are tested, sounding the General Alarm.

They're ready.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster Management.

This article is in serious need of a rewrite. Anyone reading this would think reading the page that it is only about WMD's and nuclear war. Whilst that is where CD was born, the modern version of CD/CP and emergency management takes an all-hazards approach. This article therefore needs more information regarding the range of events that CD is designed to deal with - floods, earthquakes, tornados, cyclones, transportation accidents, volcanic eruptions etc. --Rediguananz 05:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Civil Defence Logo & Republic Of Ireland civil Defence Structure.

As someone already mentioned the logo is a protected international symbol under the Geneva Convention and is only autherised on Uniforms,Civil Defence vehicals,offical paper work and offical websites, although each country has its own national logo which is displayed alongside the international logo on uniforms etc. The Irish Republics logo is a Gold Harp ringed with Shamrock and the Words Civil Defence on the Bottom and Cosaint Shibhialta(Civil Defence in Gaelic) on the top coulerd gold, on a green and black background this is also inscribed onto the Dress uniforms Buttons and Beret Badge and Civil Defence Officers Peaked Cap Badge. The International logo is Displayed on all working Uniforms eg the Auxillary fire services Helmet Badge, Rescue units hard Hats and the wardens helmets. Welfare Personell usually wear the Number 2 uniform of black poloshirt with International logo and navy trousers with a navy Jumper With civil defence in Gold on the left Breast and it can be worn with or without the Beret. This uniform is dress for all other personell including officers if attending non emergency duties ie public events or national exercises. Other uniforms include the Number 3 Uniform which is a Yellow Boiler suit coverd with a high vis Coat and hard hat issued to all personell and used for duties and training exercises. Fire gear: Issued to auxillary fire service personell only and only worn when attending fires,training or exercises any other duties AFS personell wear either uniforms 1 2 or 3 depending on the nature of the duty.Number 1 Uniforms are issued to all personell and consist of Navy Tunic with gold buttons,Navy trousers,Black Combat Boots,White lanyard,White shirt ,Black Tie and Black Beret, Officers wear a Peaked cap with gold Laurel Branches on the peak all other personell including assistant officers and instructors and unit leaders wear The Black Beret but with rank markings on the eppulettes of the tunic and/or Jumper, these are gold bars depicting the instructors seniorority, Assistant officers and officers Have gold Stars With Bars denoting seniorority,this uniform is worn for National events eg St Patricks day, Gaurds of honour, and any other formal occasions,Number 2 uniform with a white shirt and tie under the jumper is also accepted for formal occasions that are not of high importantance eg Team Photographs and other duties. The only member of each countys Civil Defence Organisation to be retained on a full salary is the officer Who is usually a senior member of the Town or County Council all other staff including Instructors are retained on a part time and Voluntry Basis and have other jobs and work on a weekly basis attending Classes and training.

82.36.100.56 15:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] article offense

It does seem as though much of this article is misspelt.

Please do note this article:

< http://wonkette.com/politics/civil-defense/proud-symbol-of-fear-replaced-by-wuss-emblem-218733.php >;

< http://wonkette.com/images/thumbs/592a2c67eb34cd8061a5ea4d52286e29.jpg >.

Thank You.

[[ hopiakuta | [[ [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] -]] 22:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Members of Civil Defense WW 2?

[edit] Civil defense vs. Emergency management

I diagree that this article needs an all-hazards rewrite. I believe this article makes sufficient reference to the "modern" discipline of Emergency Management. From a USA perspective, the CD program is a historical program. We may want to move discussion about other nations (currently using the term Civil Defense to describe their modern all-hazards programs) to the Emergency Management article, and make this article more specifically about Cold-War era nuclear survival programs world-wide. Thoughts? Parradoxx 17:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

No. Just because the US has stopped using the term Civil Defense does not mean the Wikipedia article should reflect US usage. It should be about civil defence from a worldwide perspective. Any recent US civil defence content is already at other articles. If the US-specific historical content becomes too much - it is that which should be split from this article. zoney ♣ talk 20:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
In fact, the US historical content is split (see United States civil defense). I'm not suggesting to make a pro-US adjustment, and I'm sorry it sounded that way. I am suggesting (in opposition to User:Rediguananz' suggestion above for an all-hazards rewrite) that the article Emergency Management already contains information about modern, all-hazards strategies, regardless of nation. Nations such as Singapore which name their fire brigade/emergency responders 'Civil Defence Force' are already cited in the Firefighting worldwide article. The bulk of this article discusses cold-war era General War survival strategies.
I'm suggesting that there are already articles which exist on included topics (like modern emergency management, emergency responders, etc) which would benefit from added perspective of other nations, rather than hodge-podging all of those subjects into this one article, and diminishing the General War survival strategies. Most nations had a Cold-War/General War survival strategy. Most nations have, in light of new research and the shifting of world-tensions, developed more comprehensive strategies as well. (Granted, SOME nations have always had a comprehensive strategy.. That should be included in the emergency management article).
I hope its clear that I'm discussing concepts, not just terms. If the terms are at issue, then perhaps we need more disambiguation. Did I clear up the misunderstanding? Or dig a deeper hole?? --Parradoxx 00:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Insignia

I am a graphic designer and find the discussion on this page, as well as the references in the article, to the various CD logos fascinating! However as a reader I find the occasional in-dwelling of the topic throughout the article distracting to the overall flow. I suggest creating an "Insignia" section and moving the pertinent information there. Any objections? Parradoxx 17:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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