Talk:City of Lake Macquarie

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Contents 1 2003 2 Newcastle and Lake Macquarie 3 Lake Macquarie - split into lake and city articles 4 Propose move

[edit] 2003

Since there's not likely to be many people reading this page with the expertise to contradict one of my assertions, I thought I'd better make a brief mention of possibly inaccurate information here.

"However, a good view can be obtained from lookouts in the nearby Wattagan Mountains."

My memory is a bit hazy. I'm not sure if you can see all the way to Warners Bay, but you can definitely see the south end and the ocean.

"fish stocks have been significantly reduced from their original values due mainly to recreational fishing activity."

Word of mouth. The guy seemed to know what he was talking about. I know there was once commercial fishing, so there could be more to the story.

"There is very little tourism, with the area being virtually unknown even to residents as close as Sydney. "

This statement will some day cause some poor resident to choke on their coffee. I say to that person: (a) compare it with Nelson Bay, and (b) Do you know how many times I had to explain to Sydney residents where Lake Macquarie is, during my 4 years there?

-- Tim Starling 06:53 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Newcastle and Lake Macquarie

On the Lake Macquarie page, there is this paragraph: "There is some confusion among Australians about the classification of places within the Lake Macquarie LGA, some people calling them independent towns, some calling them suburbs of Newcastle. However, residents of Lake Macquarie are in general deeply offended if they are told they are part of Newcastle."

I don't know who is confused. It is more a matter of identification. Lake Macquarie is technically and legally a city by virtue of its population size, although there is no city centre as such, i.e. there is no place called Lake Macquarie within the city, save for the lake itself.

Residents of Lake Macquarie will most often say they are from Newcastle as it is more likely to be widely known due to its role as the regional centre, just as someone who lives in Parramatta will say they are from Sydney, although technically they live in an adjacent city. Newcastle and Lake Macquarie are essentially one continuous city but with independent local government.

As for being deeply offended if told one is part of Newcastle, I have never known anybody who felt that way. As I say, we in Lake Macquarie generally feel we are part of Newcastle. Whenever I am asked where I am from, I always reply "from Newcastle", although technically Lake Macquarie is more correct.

I grew up in Belmont, many of my friends and close relatives still live in Belmont, Charlestown etc., and I frequently spend time there. I have never (until I read this article in its recent form) heard anyone suggest that there is something "offensive" about people who live in those places being considered to be from Newcastle. They'd laugh at this suggestion (as I did). In fact, everyone I know would say they are from Newcastle, just as you do.

In other words, you are totally correct. I wish you'd identified yourself, as anonymous posts don't carry much weight.

Yes, technically it is a "city" (it used to be a "shire"), but you could say the same about the "city" of Port Phillip, and all the other local government districts that are part of Melbourne (for example). Someone who lives in the "city" of Port Phillip will say, when asked, that they are "from Melbourne". As you mention, someone from Parramatta will say they are "from Sydney" (and would certainly not be offended by the idea!) It's just silly getting a city in this administrative sense mixed up with a city in the ordinary sense. We should try to avoid confusing people who read Wikipedia and don't understand the distinction. Metamagician3000 09:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Further to the above, I just went and checked what I say on my own web site. I say that I grew up in the Lake Macquarie area at the southern end of Newcastle. I guess that shows the ambiguity. I could have said "south of Newcastle", implying it is a completely separate place, or I could have just said that I grew up "in Newcastle". I guess that people like me want to be able to claim to be Novocastrians while also claiming that something "special" about growing up on the Lake. But the idea of not claiming to be a Novocastrian, or of actually being offended by it, is just bizarre. Metamagician3000 10:17, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

And to be completely fair to the person who wrote the words we are criticising, I have been known to say "south of Newcastle". I don't see this as different from describing Parramatta or Penrith as "west of Sydney" or Frankston as "near Melbourne" but there is always this ambiguity about what is in a sprawling Australian city and what is merely near it, given the way local government boundaries are drawn. All the same, I'm still laughing at the "offended" comment. :) Surely wikipedia should be explaining the situation accurately - that it is a group of towns administered by one "city" council, clustering around the lake, and merging with Newcastle when you drive between Charlestown and Adamstown. Metamagician3000 00:05, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Well I lived in Cardiff a few years ago I always told people that I live in Lake Macquarie BTW council is in the planning stage for its own CBD ie a suburb called Lake Macquarie City. At last news they had proposed that the shopping area of Glendale, part of the Cardiff area, Argenton area and the pasminco site would be the new suburb with little or no residential housing in the surburb. I myself think its wrong to advertise something to be what it is not. Lake Macquarie is a City as is Newcastle. Do people in Maitland say they live in Newcastle, or what about Port Stephens or Cessnock? No I dont think so. I think its time that Lake Macquarie got the recognition that it deserves instead of always giving Newcastle the glory. Thats the purpose of the proposed CBD.

Well, I live in the City of Port Phillip these days. But everyone here knows that the City of Port Phillip is a whole bunch of suburbs that are part of metropolitan Melbourne. It's true that no one considers Maitland part of Newcastle, and it can be a grey area where a city (in the normal sense as opposed the capitalised "City of..." sense begins and ends). No one thinks that Geelong is part of Melbourne, either, or that Gosford is part of Sydney. But there are plenty of "City ofs" that are part of Melbourne (for example). In fact, the "City of Melbourne" is only a small part of the city of Melbourne, and I've never heard people who live in the City of Bundoora or the City of Port Phillip or whatever complain that they are thought of as Melburnians, or that Melbourne "gets all the glory". The idea actually sounds a bit silly to me. We want to present ourselves to the world as a full-sized city, not a whole lot of "Cities of", even though there are different football teams, etc. Similarly, Parramatta is not part of Sydney for local government purposes but everyone counts Parramatta, Penrith, etc, etc when they add up the population of metropolitan Sydney. Someone who lives in Parramatta will describe himself as "from Sydney".

Honestly, arguing from this "City of..." administrative thing is just causing confusion. If there really are two viewpoints among people who live in the towns and suburbs that make up Lake Macquarie, these days, I guess they should be reflected in the article somehow, but I've honestly never heard anyone who has lived there all of their life, such as my parents or my friends, express offence at being thought of as coming "from Newcastle" or as living in a town (such as Belmont, where I grew up, or Gateshead or Whitebridge or Warners Bay or whatever) that is "part of Newcastle" in the wider, non-administrative sense.

Maybe this is changing among younger people, but as far as I've ever heard the anonymous poster who I replied to had it exactly right. If anything, the people I know from (say) Belmont would probably be pissed off if the people from near Cardiff or wherever claimed that they were now the "Lake Macquarie CBD", or if they were told they could no longer consider themselves to be part of the larger entity of Newcastle. If it is changing among the younger generation (which I've seen no evidence of except what you've said here) then maybe Lake Macquarie will become a lower-case-city in the ordinary sense one day. From what you're saying some people have that as their plan. But it hasn't happened yet. :) No one has yet built that CBD for example, let alone got it established. I was there at Christmas time, again, and it still looks nothing like a city in that sense. It is still a batch of towns that merge into the suburbs of Newcastle. To suggest otherwise will give totally the wrong impression to people from all over the world who could read this article. Metamagician3000 14:05, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah well I still think that the city should get the recognition it deserves visit this link here at councils website to find out more info about the proposed CBD http://www.lakemac.com.au/news/news_details.asp?key=1471 after reading this you'll see that the mayor shares the same veiw as I do in creating a identity for the city.

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the Newcastle Statistical Division includes Newcastle, Lake Macquarie, Port Stephens, Maitland and Cessnock LGAs. This is how Newcastle manages to claim the title of sixth largest city in Australia. Though when discussing the metropolitan area, it only includes Newcastle and Lake Macquarie. In reality, Port Stephens, Maitland and Cessnock are distinct places, as they are not directly joined to Newcastle in an urban sense. Rather they rely on Newcastle (and vice versa) for employment, services, etc. However, the Lake Macquarie urban area is clearly joined to the urban area of Newcastle. It's nonsense to claim Lake Macquarie as a completely separate city. As stated previously, the residents of Parramatta would not claim that they are a distinct city to Sydney. The same as the people of Gosford and Wyong would not claim they are from Sydney (even though they are included in the Sydney Statistical Division). There's nothing wrong with discussing Lake Macquarie and Newcastle in separate articles, but there should be a clear explanation that they are part of the same metropolitan area.

[edit] Lake Macquarie - split into lake and city articles

It seems that the City of Lake Macquarie and the geographical feature called Lake Macquarie may deserve to be two different articles. Gregwmay 22:51, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propose move

Shouldn't this article be located at Lake Macquarie, New South Wales? If not, shouldn't there be a redirect there to this article? Blarneytherinosaur 01:05, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Right now that place is occupied by the article on the lake, which was split off from this article. Probably not the best location of that article either. andy 11:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Should be the other way around, the place disambiguated with state suffic and the Lake not--A Y Arktos\^talk 12:31, 8 June 2006 (UTC)