Talk:Cigarette

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[edit] Carcinogens

Whoever altered the carcinogens section to read:

There are 4000 chemicals and 43 of which are known as carcinogenic compounds in cigarettes

You did not include a new citation. I included the original citation which appears next to this statement. According to this source, former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop:

In addition to nicotine, tobacco contains over 19 known cancer-causing chemicals

(Note: The number of carcinogens is thus 19 because nicotine is not in and of itself a carcinogen, but can form the carcinogen nitrosamine during a direct-fire curing process)

If you are going to change the number of suspected carcinogens in cigarettes, you will need to find a new source that supports these claims.

Furthermore, the number of total chemicals in a cigarette is irrelevant in a section pertaining directly to carcinogens. If you would like this information included in the article please find a more suitable location for it.

Tarcieri 22:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fag?

What's the releveance of this nickname? Cigarettes have hundreds of nicknames so why pick on this particular one to display in the very first sentence. I would suspect that a cheeky American (USA) has done this for a spot of fun (because of what else "Fag" can mean).

I STRONGLY suggest editing this first sentence and instead creating a seperate section on nicknames for cigarettes which names many more than just this one that can also mean homesexual man. (82.40.177.159 07:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC))

Please read the section on this talk page titled British Colloquialism. Your strong suggestion is noted. Our discussion includes the possibility of what you just described. After reading the discussion in that section, your contribution to it would be greatly appreciated. --Davidkazuhiro 08:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I can find no section. (82.40.177.159 09:37, 15 February 2007 (UTC))
It's the sixth one below this one. Scroll down or click on "British Colloquialism" in the contents box which is right above this. --Davidkazuhiro 10:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The "Fag" should be removed. Tomazrui

I disagree, as a brit, this is what they are commonly referred to. (see British Colloquialism below) --Hm2k 10:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mass?

I noticed that the maximum dimensions of a typical cigarette are mentioned, but nowhere (that I could find, anyway, I'm not infallible :) ) does the article give the average amount of tobacco in a cigarette. I shall now try to find this information (I don't think it'll be too hard, but in case someone just sees this and KNOWS...) AnarchyElmo 02:43, 11 February 2007 (UTC) Apparently the average (tobacco) cigarette contains about 1 gram of tobacco, can anyone sanity check me with their own search? AnarchyElmo 03:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I read somewhere that the average pack of cigarettes has 1oz (28g) of tobacco, so it's probably something around there. Nemilar 03:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Important?

Uruguay is the first and only country in the world that recently made illegal to smoke in ANY closed space such as bars, offices, restaurants... (anything except in your own house, lol), is that worth mentioning on the article? Wesborland 01:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good thing to put down.Sjschen 14:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smoking in Argentina

Ummmmm, that thing about Uruguay, is happening here, in Argentina. It became illegal to smoke in public places. Someone might want to add that in?

Done! Wesborland 21:00, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consumption Stat Seems Off

Can this statistic under "consumption" be right: "Approximately 5.5 trillion cigarettes are produced globally each year by the tobacco industry, smoked by over 1.1 billion people, which is more than 1/6 of the world's total population." That comes out to 5000 cigarettes a smoker per year, or 13 a day per smoker. Just seems high and there's not citation. Someone want to check that? Ultramontane 16:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Cigarette packs have 20-25 cigarettes in each, with some up to 50, so heavy smokers would offset casual smokers, and the average would be about 1/2 a pack a day.203.59.11.97 16:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Public Place"

Just as a side note for those that want to be accurate; bars, restaurants, casinos, movie theaters, malls, etc., are not "public places." They are owned by private interests, not the government, so they are "private" by definition. Just because a business encourages customers to enter their establishment, that does not make that business "public." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.58.233.66 (talk) 19:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Actually, they are considered public places if everyone has the right to enter them. Especially considering that for those places it's illegal to have a certain admission policy that goes against the laws on discrimination. --Wesborland 16:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

The U.S. Supreme court in Lloyd Corp v. Tanner decided that a place of business does not become public property because the public is invited in. The anti-discrimination laws refer to specific groups. Even they are fair game for exclusion if excluded for reasons other than those outlined by the statute.

[edit] British Colloquialism

I've added the British Colloquialism "fag" to the heading paragraph a couple of times. When I've come back, it's been completely removed both times. Being moved from the first paragraph isn't that big a deal, even though I think it should go there. I at least expected it to remain somewhere within the article though. It's an important fact that many British people call a cigarrette a fag. I don't want to add it again since that would be the third time, and seem like I'm trying to start an edit war. So I'm asking for some editor consensus. If you think it should be added, please say so. If it seems that alot of people agree, please add the reference appropriately to the article. If you don't agree, please leave your reason why here as well. Thanks. --Davidkazuhiro 12:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the article should note this common slang. Perhaps "A Cigarette (colloquially known in England as a Fag)..." or something of that nature. However, due to the fact that "fag" is a word of negative connotation in America, it should not be used interchangeably with "Cigarette" in the article. Nemilar 17:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Definitely not to be used interchangeably. I will use your suggested form of reference and see what happens --Davidkazuhiro 14:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
There's no need to insert it repeatedly. Nemilar, this is a British slang term (and as far as I know an Irish one too) not exclusively an English one. Remember not to use the words British and English interchangeably, you're only going to offend people. -- IslaySolomon | talk 04:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I've altered the opening paragraph accordingly and added a reference. I'm not sure this is the answer though. I'm sure there are a great many slang terms for cigarettes the world over and this feels a lot like systemic bias. A section on alternative names might be the answer but bearing in mind that Wikipedia is not a dictionary it might be best to leave the slang to the disambiguation pages. -- IslaySolomon | talk 04:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
A subsection sounds good. I apologize for using English instead of British. That was due to ignorance and nothing else. Wikipedia is indeed not a dictionary, but stating a colloquialism isn't the same as what a dictionary does, in fact, it is opposite. Having significant colloquialisms as a part of the article would represent the variety of cultural contexts which is integral to anything as international as a ciggarette. --Davidkazuhiro 06:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not disagreeing that it's a common slang term, but the way it's portrayed in the first sentence seems to imply that the two terms are used interchangeably, at the exception of all other slang terms for a cigarette. You're listing one slang term out of very many, and the term fag really isn't ubiquitous enough that it needs to be featured so prominently in the article. Let's use the common standard term first, and then address slang terms later on in the article.

Sumixam (previous poster), I've reverted your edit for now. I agree with your argument that it should be placed elsewhere. Please don't say "let us" if you don't intend to do it yourself though. And remember to sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~. I'll make the changes you suggested as soon as I'm able. --Davidkazuhiro 22:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, there is not much point making a separate section for colloquialisms unless there are other ones than "fag" to include. Most of the editors involved in this discussion impy they share IslaySolomon's assumption that "there are a great many slang terms for cigarettes the world over". I was unable to find reference to any such slang via google, but I'm bad at finding things in general. If any of you can find a reference to slang/colloquial terms for ciggarette from other regions in the world, please go ahead and create a slang/colloquialism subsection with the appropriate citations. --Davidkazuhiro 01:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, I'm perfectly willing to accept that "fag" is an unusually well established piece of slang. However, that's all it is: slang. Considering that 1. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, or a jargon or usage guide and 2. Wikipedia is not a travel guide, I really can't see the merit of telling a reader which slang name to use when asking for a cigarrete on a very small area of the Earth's surface. Besides which, inserting slang (albeit well referenced slang) into an article is only going to open the flood gates for a tidal wave of "ciggies", "cigs", "cancer-sticks", "smokes", "tabs" etc. -- IslaySolomon | talk 05:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Very good point IslaySolomon, I can see your concern a lot more clearly now. My goal of mentioning the term "fag" is to cover a notable facet of culture surrounding cigarettes rather than to make a slang usage or travel guide. This is where your interpretation of WP:DICDEF makes the difference. My difficulty with the opinion to not include based on the argument of "it belongs in a dictionary" is that there is no place for the cultural facet of the terminology in a dictionary. If there is no place for it in an enclyclopedic article, nor in a dictionary, then there is no place for it anywhere. The closest a dictionary gets is with etymology, but that's still not what I'm going for, or why I am contending for its inclusion. What would you say to my proposition to address significant colloquialisms in the light of there cultural contexts? Perhaps a good example of what I'm going for can be found in the paragraph which discusses terminology in Facial tissue

"Facial tissue is often referred to as a "tissue" or by the genericized trademark "Kleenex" which popularised the invention and its use. The term "paper handkerchief" is also used."

So again, what would your response be to my proposition to address significant colloquialisms in the light of there cultural contexts? --Davidkazuhiro 18:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I say remove the reference to "fag" in the first sentence. There's no need for it anywhere in the article apart from in a "trivia" or "nicknames" section. Davidkazuhiro's beliefs about the use of the term "fag" are misconstrued. The term is one of many slang words for cigarette in the UK and so why shove it into the opening sentence as if there are no other slang words?(82.40.177.159 11:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC))


I will remove the reference from the introductory sentence and place it towards the bottom of the article, due to the many editors who are concerned with its location. We'll see this alternative presentation turns out. By the way 82.40.177.159, I like big words too but it seems you have misconstrued the meaning of the word misconstrue (just slightly). The verb more accurately describes a misunderstanding of meaning and definition than a misguided belief in term usage trends. Thank you all for your input and patience. You're a good lot of editors Wikipedia should have more of. --Davidkazuhiro 08:12, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Did I misunderstand? I don't think so. :) (82.40.177.159 13:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC))
whatever =D --Davidkazuhiro 07:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reference

Hoffmann D, Hoffmann I; The changing cigarette, 1950-1995; JOURNAL OF TOXICOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH 50 (4): 307-364 MAR 1997 --Stone 13:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Smoking in Egypt

I am not really sure if this is right right "Egypt it is legal to use and purchase tobacco products regardless of age" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.107.25.187 (talk) 00:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Smoking bans

I added the "off-topic" tag. Wikipedia already has an article about smoking bans and I think it is not necessary to have a section about smoking bans in the Cigarette article. A link saying "Main article: Smoking ban" would be more appropriate. Smoking bans are also off-topic in the Cigarette article because they don't apply only to cigarettes, but to all tobacco smoking. So let's see some opinions before emptying the section about smoking bans and replacing it with a single link to the Smoking ban article. Canjth 01:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This article is about cigarettes and all the controversy they cause, so I think that section should be kept. --Wesborland 17:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the information in the Smoking Bans section should be merged into the Smoking Bans article, with a link to that article kept here (Main topic: Smoking Bans), with a short paragraph or two summarizing bans world-wide. Please comment on this, and if there is a positive reaction to this idea, I will go ahead and make the necessary edits. Nemilar 17:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
This article is about cigarettes; however, as previously stated the subject of the controversy surrounding their use, while relevant, is not necessarily about cigarettes per se, the entire topic of smoking bans being wider than this limited area. Since it is customary to branch off detailed sub-topics, especially ones that overlap into other areas, on their own page and there already is a page existing concerning this topic, I agree that the merger and linking should be made. James Reed 18:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The articles on smoking bans (Smoking_ban#Smoking_bans_by_country) seem to be very thorough. I'm going to go ahead removing the list from this article, and linking the other relevant articles. Nemilar 15:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have made the edit, please improve it as you see fit! Nemilar 19:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Mistake'

Who put in that absolutely horrible version that replaced a lengthy article with something beginning immediately on the topic of addictiveness? Seems a bit...rubbish. Good job on the revert, though =) Roche-Kerr 15:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Cigarette Paper in the US

According to my local liquor store owner, as of January 1 all cigarettes must come with flame-retardant paper as of 1/1/07. This, if true (and I believe these guys) would be an important addition to this article. I have had no luck trying to find this at Google. Indeed, I came to this article to see if I could find the answer. Here's a good link I just found: http://firesafecigarettes.org/itemDetail.asp?categoryID=91&itemID=1370&URL=Letter%20to%20tobacco%20companies

Kovu401 02:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Class A?

I don't smoke, but I recently started working in a convience store so I've become more familiar with cigarettes. I've noticed that all the packs say "20 class A cigarettes". Does that mean there are other classes, and what sets class A cigarettes apart? 70.238.58.129 04:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)Bill

``Classes refer to the general size, for taxation purposes. Class A's are usually 80mm by 10mm, but there are other classes. They are horribly, ridiculously hard to find. 71.195.31.101 13:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation problem

In section 4.1 of the article (Contents and health effects: Carcinogens), there is a bullet point which goes like this:

  • Benzopyrene is a highly carcinogenic and mutagenic compound which is formed during the incomplete combustion of organic matter. Tobacco manufacturers have experimented with combustionless vaporizer technology to allow cigarettes to be consumed without the formation of carcinogenic benzopyrenes.[1]

I have two problems with this:

  • "Combustionless" is not a word, and is not referred to in the cited website.
  • Important terms can not be found in the article, such as benzopyrenes. The word vapor can only be found in a caption.

I'm not an expert so I could only make simple observations like these. My humble guess is either the author of this passage is referring to something else such as nitrosamines (which is referred to in the cited article), or has incorrectly cited this passage. I need someone with a bit more experience to make the appropriate edit or explanation here. --Davidkazuhiro 08:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Combustionless is a word which has been used by the tobacco industry for vaporized cigarettes (source), but is probably not the best choice for an encyclopedia article.
Regarding the citation itself, the cited source does not support the statement. Tarcieri 21:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll remove the citation then and put in the citation needed tag. The word combustionless should either be explained or substituted for another word because nobody is going to find it in a dictionary. --Davidkazuhiro 05:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Names for cigarettes (fag, cig)

There seem to be a lot of edits inserting common nicknames for cigarettes in the first sentence of the page. Perhaps a section on common slang words for cigarettes is in order? Or a sepearate article? --Nemilar 04:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

A section would definitely turn into it's own list article very quickly, since there are many terms out there in the English speaking world. --Davidkazuhiro 08:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cancer rates rise dramatically after the 40's.

Cancer Trends During the 20th Century from the Journal of the Australasian College of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine. Örjan Hallberg,a M.Sc.e.e., consultant and Olle Johansson,a Assoc. Professor

http://www.acnem.org/journal/21-1_april_2002/cancer_trends.htm

As you'll see from the charts, cancers rates increased dramaticaly after the 40's.

Why is this. Is it from smoking or something else. Well as we know in 1942 the first atomic tests where conducted and thereafter hundreds more.

Before being banned by Russia, Britain and America, a total of 711 atmospheric nuclear tests were conducted, thereby creating 711,000 kilograms of deadly microscopic radioactive particles, to which must be added the original 4,200 kilograms from the weapons themselves, for a gross though very conservative total of 715,200 kilograms. There are more than a million lethal doses per kilogram, meaning that your governments have contaminated your atmosphere with more than 715,000,000,000 [715 Billion] such doses, enough to cause lung or skin cancer 117 times in every man, woman and child on earth.

The half-life of radioactive material is 50,000 years. These particles do not go anywhere. This is the real reason for the cancer epidemic, (plus the toxidity of the enviroment through the use of chemicals and other toxic substances) not cigarettes.

Natural Tobacco and cannabis (not the commercial cigarettes of today) are organic substances that have been used medicinally for thousands of years.70.137.147.51 23:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)MMH.

[edit] India changes by 160.254.20.253

Can someone assert, cite or demonstrate that this edit pertaining to India made by 160.254.20.253 is in fact a verifiable truth? --Davidkazuhiro 09:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prison Currency

These things are used in PRISON as currency. Where can this be placed ? 65.173.105.125 02:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

There are no, or little details on the history of Cigarette's, to me this seems like a rather big aspect of this topic that has clearly been overlooked. This is a separate issue to the history of tobacco, as such the design of a Cigarette, including the paper used, the filter, with the brown/orange and yellow spots. Why and where does this come from? These kind of details are critical to an article such as this. --Hm2k 10:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colloquial Names (New Article)

Alright, I've had about enough...I'm going to take it upon myself to create a new article for a listing of colloquial names for cigarettes. Any input would be greatly appreciated. -- Nemilar 06:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. The new article is located at Nicknames for Cigarettes. Hopefully this will stop the madness of edits/reverts to this article. Please expand the list as you see fit. Be bold! -- Nemilar 06:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
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