Talk:Christianity in Australia

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Stop vandalising please. Leave facts as you see them. Tarins01 03:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tony Abbott

• The reason for the NPOV tag is because of Abbott being labeled as a "denier". I agree with that - as I have little respect for Abbott or the Catholic church - but others probably wouldn't. Black-Velvet 03:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

That denier thing is BS. This who article is only here because "someone" did not like the direction of Islam in Australia. Xtra 03:51, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I cant agree with Xtra. A woman wanting Abortion: it is her basic right and decision alone; not Tony's. Tony Abbott, is staunchly against abortion. Werent you keeping up with the pill issues a few weeks back? Tarins01 03:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

That is your opinion and if you step back you will realise that it is highly POV. Just like if I were to say "ACT - murderer of unborn children". Xtra 04:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Saying "ACT- murderer of unborn children" is different then to single out Tony Abbott. There are a fair number in Howard's government who are pro-abortion; sadly Abbott isnt one of them. So, where is the problem in calling him denier?

You are saying that he is denying them a right, and that is a matter of point of view. I do not see your problem here. I am not trying to impose my ideology here, so why are you? Xtra 05:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

ummm. Well that i wouldnt call it a point of view. its more factual isnt it? Tarins01 06:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article existance

I would be a supporter of this article being created, but clearly at the moment we need to establish some ground rules for editing before attempting it. Does anybody know of a sample of quality Religion in Place articles we could base from? I'd guess that one thing to learn from Islam in Australia is that the "Personalities" section is probably a bad idea. If we would like to develop either (or both) to Featured Article status, they eventually need references, so we could start by requiring a suitable reference for every potentially contentious statement or statistic.

My proposed ground rules:

• Every claim or statistic should be referenced using Cite.php references (<ref>{{cite (web|book|news)}}</ref>
• No lists of people, as they are almost certainly incomplete and subjective
• Editors will be polite and assume good faith in other editors. This applies on the article page, the talk page and in edit comments
• All edits by regular editors must have an accurate edit summary
• Never revert a regular editor or call their edit vandalism (see assume good faith above)
• It is acceptable to move (with explanation) an unsourced or poorly sourced sentence or paragraph to the talk page for discussion.
• If such a sentence is removed from the article, it requires two-thirds (or more) agreement in the talk page to be returned. The same goes for disputed reference sources.

Please discuss these proposed rules below, or indicate support. --Scott Davis ^Talk 09:58, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I think i would be in support of scott davis'proposal. If the personalities section would be in existance in Islam in Australia then so should it in Christianity in Australia including criminals, business figures, politicians etc... Tarins01 03:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Tarins you have already presented yourself as an editor here to demonise Christianity through this article (and thus violate much of wikipedia policy). While I hope your new premise is sincere, I doubt it. I agree with much (but not all) of Scott's proposal - however, before the redirect is taken off a fair and npov stub should be put in its place (and agreed to on this talk page before inclusion). michael ^talk 05:20, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Demonise? don't think so mate.Tarins01 06:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I've made a partial start at Christianity in Australia/draft. It got late, so I haven't sought references for everything yet. The second reference was copied from Religion in Australia. There is more info in the first one I haven't used yet. Michael, please don't keep us in suspense about what you don't like in my proposed rules. --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:05, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Out of wish for a cohesive effort I will agree to what you have proposed michael ^talk 14:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New version?

Is the above talk relevant, or are we starting from scratch?

Also, the bit "A number of current and past politicians present themselves as Christian in a partisan manner" seems a bit dodgy - there's no citations - it seems to be original research based on the authors' memory. Andjam 09:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

It looks like Paul's new article uses some of my draft article mentioned above, but other bits are absent. We are going to need to keep a watch and tight reign on unsourced or badly sourced statements. While I think this is an important article to have, it also has a history of vandalism and bias. I have noted that I oppose merging this article to the general Religion in Australia. Unfortunately, as I will be on holidays for the next month, my editing will be sporadic. --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I wrote this using Scott's draft as a start, but tried to be pick up on some aspects not covered. I agree work is required in mentioning individuals. It certainly can be improved. To achieve some balance in addressing Religion in Australia would appear to require an article on Christianity in its own right as there are articles on Islam in Australia and History of the Jews in Australia. To merge it would unbalance that article if the topic is to be addressed effectively. The Christian section would be limited to something quite short. (discussion copied to Talk:Religion in Australia) Paul foord 15:38, 16 September 2006 (UTC)