Talk:Christian Bernard Singer
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What cleanup is required? Epiphyte 09:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
- This is basically a resume. The artist is not notable, he's a local artist, like thousands of others. This is an encyclopedia, not a directory. Where's the academic sources? What historians have written about him (which are not reviews, interviews or profile pieces)? What has he contributed to the history and/or development of art? Maybe one day he will be notable, but wikipedia is not a crystal ball.Freshacconci 18:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
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- Singer meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines for people Wikipedia:Notability (people) which doesn't list documentation by historians as a prerequisite for having an article. His review in Sculpture Magazine along with his work with eco-installations is note worthy for people familiar with the field. Are you familiar with the field of eco-installations? Epiphyte 19:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
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- Yes, and one review in a magazine does not make him notable. Perhaps a page about eco-installations would be more useful. As it is, Singer's page is a resume.Freshacconci 20:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
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- So who do you consider a Wikipedia worthy eco-installation artist? I'm also familiar with eco-installations and I consider Singer's contributions notable enough for a Wikipedia article. He's been reviewed in more than one magazine as you can see from his publication list. You should take a look at it...I provided it and the other bulleted points in order to help stave off discussions such as these...which is why his article reads like a resume. I look forward to reading your eco-installation article. Epiphyte 20:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
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Anyway, I'm hardly going to get in some flame-war with you. An editor had questioned the quality of the article, you asked why, and I ran across this discussion and pointed out the wiki standards. You shouldn't take it personally. Please read the guidelines carefully. Otherwise, enjoy your time here! Freshacconci 20:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
If you read what Wiki says about notability, "The article should document, in a non-partisan manner, what reliable third party sources have published about the subject and, in some circumstances, what the subject may have published about themselves. The writing style should be neutral, factual, and understated, avoiding both a sympathetic point of view and an advocacy journalism point of view." Do you have any sources on CBS and eco-installation? Other than your own web site? Why hasn't he ever exhibited in Canada's best known eco-art gallery, Deleon White? It would seem that you are trying to promote your own web site, artremains.com, through wiki entries. This is conflict of interest. Danaplato 01:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- I included some reliable third party sources. Are you trying to infer that because Singer hasn't been exhibited in Deleon White that he's not a notable eco-installation artist? I would consider this to be more an oversite on the part of Deleon White. Regarding conflict of interests, whose interests are conflicting? Is it against the interests of people researching eco-installations that they find this article on Wikipedia? Is it against anybody's interest to have the option to view Singer's artwork exhibited on ArtRemains? I firmly believe in transparency which is why I included the link to ArtRemains on my user page, which is how you are aware of my relationship to ArtRemains. So how are your interests harmed by this article? Epiphyte 07:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, I suppose you would be the one inferring, and I would be the one implying :) But seriously, if you read the Wikipedia rules, this article is pretty much a no-brainer conflict of interest and something that reads like a resume. Rather than a list of Singer's grants and publications, why don't you synthesize his achievements, drawing on those oh-so-many third party sources you list? The harm isn't to me, it's to the Wiki community that a biased an unresearched entry is posted. So really, I don't want to debate it, but I will report it. If you are a serious Wiki editor, this is such a clear violation, there should be no question. Danaplato 18:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
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- Singer is within Wikipedia's notability guidelines..."The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person."
- All the information listed is factual with no embellishment so your accusation of bias is groundless.
- You fail to point out any actual examples of bias from within the article.
- Lists are a more intuitive format for the exhibits, grants, awards and publications.
- This is a work in progress article that anyone can expand on using listed references. Epiphyte 06:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Copyvio
Most of this article is still appears to be a "cut and past" copyvio from a copyrighted web page.[1] It only needs the authoring editor of this WP article to ask the author of the original text for permission for inclusion on WP under GNU license and everything will be fine. See: Wikipedia:Boilerplate_request_for_permission. This will avoid this article being flag up for deletion. This might be flagged automatically by Wherebot, delay at your own peril. A Template:Confirmation tag can then be added to this page to indicate that permission has been registered.
Notability: I appreciate that it can be difficult sometimes to agree on the 'notability' of contemporary artists. This however, can be assisted by composing content for the article that asserts the importance or significance of its subject. Look at other article of not dead yet artists for ideas. --Aspro 12:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Formatting
I removed the resume items, as these go against the standard wiki format. This article need lots of work and I'm not convinced the artist is notable, but I'll err on the side of being inclusive. Freshacconci 20:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'll err on the side of being inclusive too. Since WP is not a paper encyclopedia there is room (a plenty) if this artist is a big cheese in his locality. After all, if Van Gogh was alive today he might have the same problem of recognition. Mind you! Vincent wasn't building "indoor compost heaps" as my friend described these linear sculptures -- but then, my friend is not much of an artē fartē either! --Aspro 21:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
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- I'm not so much concerned with the quality of the work, but great description nevertheless. My main problem is the insistance in the above discussion that the artist is a notable eco-installation artist. If you google "eco-installation" the only reference to art you get is to this artist (it's easy to be notable when you're the only one--you tend to stand out). Plus, the article was written by the guy who runs a site the article links to, so it's somewhat of a conflict of interest. Having said all that, the artist is of minor note, I suppose. If someone wants to nominate the article for deletion I may support that, but Epiphyte seems to be taking it all personally, so I really don't want to get into some flamewar with him. Life is too short for pettiness. As you said, WP has lots of room, even for compost. Freshacconci 21:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Updating Page
I've removed "what links here" and added this page to WikiProject Wikify. Perhaps someone else neutral can come along to fix this article. I've left "Like a Resume" mainly because of the conflict of interest of the main author of the article, under "close relationships" and "campaigning" concerns. I'm still not certain of the subject's importance, so I'll leave that up as well. Freshacconci 18:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
