Talk:Chris Craft (racing driver)

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[edit] British / English

This is something I've tried to discuss on project pages etc, but no concensus ever comes out of it. Nationality / identity etc is such a problem. Not everyone in Cornwall identifies as English. Many people born in Cornwall identify as Cornish, not English. Until someone can verify whether Chris Craft identifies as one or the other, I think it's sensible to refer to his nationality as the official one, which is British. He had a British racing licence, so he's British in the eyes of the FIA. End of story.

I purposely didn't edit the article to read that he was Cornish, because some people don't like it. No-one can argue with "British" - at least I didn't think so. Craft's nationality is British - that's what it will say on his passport. Whether Cornwall is in England or not is another argument we can have for a very long time, and again it's easier to put Britain. Why is this such a problem? Bretonbanquet 22:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

"Whether Cornwall is in England or not is another argument we can have for a very long time". No, that is not true: Cornwall is certainly a part of England, however much some people wish that that were not the case. --Mais oui! 22:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Show me the Act of Union then. This is a discussion that's been had many many times over, and no matter how many people look at a map and believe what they see, there is no official documentation of an Act of Union. In any case, that's irrelevant here because I'm not trying to dictate that Craft is Cornish. Do you deny he's British, and that his racing licence and passport are British? England is not politically a country, it is part of the UK. Craft raced for Britain, same as Button and Coulthard do. Bretonbanquet 22:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Nationality is an attribute of a nation. England is a nation. You are talking about citizenship, which is an attribute of a state. That Cornwall is a county of England is utterly undeniable. Yes, Cornwall was annexed, as was Wales; only England, Scotland and Ireland passed Acts of Parliament. English implies British, but the reverse is not true. --Mais oui! 23:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You are totally denying the existence of the Cornish identity, which is nothing new - lots of people do it. But you cannot deny that Craft had no English racing licence, because there is no such thing, nor has he ever had an English passport. Racing drivers are classed by nationality according to their racing licences, and Craft's is British. The FIA do not recognise England as a racing licence-issuing nation, and motor racing is what this article is all about. If you don't understand the FIA system of nationality, then please leave motor racing articles to those that do know about it.

Not only that, how do you know he wasn't born in Cornwall to Scottish parents, and moved to Scotland when he was 6 months old? He might identify 100% with being Scottish. Until you can verify his Englishness or otherwise, then British is the only verifiable nationality we can allocate to him.Bretonbanquet 23:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

And now you threaten me as well - fantastic. Good old wikipedia fair play system. I allocate a correct label to a an article in place of an unverifiable one, and I get threatened with blocking. Just wonderful. Anyway, you've already reverted three times, so do the rules not apply to you? Bretonbanquet 23:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

This is one reason why the agreed position for Wikiproject F1 is that we go with the nationality of the racing license. Having agreed that we can avoid this kind of argument, because the nationality of the racing license is unarguable - there are no English, Welsh or Scottish (or Cornish!) racing licenses recognised by the FIA. That's just the way the sport is organised: Like the Olympics, but unlike Football. --4u1e 16:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)