Talk:Chinese Australian

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[edit] Requested move

I would much prefer it if this article were called Chinese Australian -- better to be singular. Enochlau 13:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Support - put in request. this is standard. -- Zondor 14:12, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discision

Page moved. Ryan Norton T | @ | C 05:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Terence Tao

I am not sure it is 100% appropriate for TT to be included in the list of notables here. Tereance Tao is a great guy - his stature in the mathematical world is immense but it looks as if he has not been around Aus for a while and he might not be back. Including him in the list of notable Chinese Aussies does not feel quite right. novacatz 10:24, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

If we were to take the definition of a "Chinese Australian" literally, he needs to be an "Australian", i.e. an Australian citizen. So, the question then is whether he has taken up US citizenship now. enochlau (talk) 11:11, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Right, fair enough... cross referenced from Wikipedia, didn't know he was not Australian citizen... my criterion in these situations is always Australian citizenship. If he doesn't have Australian citizenship he can't be considered Australian. By the way, Enoch, obtaining another citizenship does not mean loss of Australian citizenship, so if he was an Australian citizen it would be irrelevant if he took up US citizenship. Doire (talk) 11:35, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh yes of course. Where did you read that he's not an Australian citizen? He would've been to start off with since he was born in Adelaide... enochlau (talk) 12:14, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Doire, for your edification -- if someone chooses to be naturalised as a US citizen, one of the steps is a pledge under oath renouncing their existing citizenship. novacatz 13:08, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Novacatz, for your information -- if an Australian national takes an oath renouncing their existing citizenship in a naturalisation ceremony in the United States it has no bearing whatsoever in Australian law and they remain an Australian citizen regardless.Doire 15:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
This is NOT TRUE! The answer from here [1] to question one states that a citizen can lose their citizenship if they renounce their Australian Citizenship (as required by the US naturalisation process). You may be confused with the April 2002 changes which allow an Australian to acquire a citizenship without automatically losing Australian citizenship (this is a change from the previous rules; it is pertinent where someone wishes to acquire citizenship in a country which does not require renounciation). HTH, HAND. novacatz 16:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I think you are confusing an OATH of renunciation for rhetorical purposes of a CEREMONY in the US with ACTUAL renunciation BY APPLICATION ACCORDING TO AUSTRALIAN LAW. Very few applicants for US citizenship bother to renounce their other citizenship - that's why you have dual citizens who have US passports. Same in Australia before 2002. One of the reasons the law had to change was because the Australian Government had no way of knowing whether its citizens had obtained other citizenships. The only country to inform it was Italy, and the Italian Government had ceased to do so by the 1990s. Doire 16:37, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I guess we are both right in a way. You are right - renouncing Aus citizenship is a matter of filling in the form (and paying a fee!?!?). Part of the ceremony for US naturalisation is an oath that other citizenships have been renounced. Do people do this? Probably not if it is disvantageous. Can the government check? It is really hard. Does the government want to check? From my understanding the US govt doesn't want to open this can of worms... but for others (China) they will treat a former-Aust as just that - no longer a Aust. citizen with no right of recourse to Aust. consulates inside of China. novacatz 17:04, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. Glad we sorted it out. The Chinese Government, of course, considers all those with Chinese ancestry to be Chinese citizens only, even in cases where the ancestry is somewhat distant. At least that's how I understand PRC citizenship law.Doire 17:08, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Enoch, I have never heard of Terence Tao myself, so I have no idea where he was born or what citizenship(s) he holds. However, searching for prominent Chinese Australians on Wikipedia came up with his name, so I popped him in the list. If he's an Australian citizen, good on him. If he isn't, then pull him off the list. By the way, birth in Australia does not automatically entitle you to Australian citizenship unless one (or both) of your parents is an Australian citizen or permanent resident. Doire 15:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Dragging this discussion back on topic -- TT is still an Aussie <- this tidbit from his CV on his website. So I guess he stays on the list. novacatz 17:13, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Cool. enochlau (talk) 23:52, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
This article, on him winning the Fields Medal, says that he is. Jpe|ob 12:33, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Judging by the usual approach to "Aussieness" in the Australian media, anyone who's ever set foot within 200 meters of a kangaroo anywhere on earth is Australian. --Sumple (Talk) 15:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Statistics

Is it possible to get a hold of statistics of Australian born Chinese Australians? I remember seeing this somewhere on the census, or perhaps on one of their "multicultural" supplements. Chinese Australians aren't all immigrants (myself included), knowing that some of them have been around since gold rush days.

I believe it is a very small percentage, but would be interesting to know regardless. Thanks!

[edit] Real estate tycoon L J Hooker was a Chinese Australian

[2]

[edit] Sino-Vietnamese are Chinese?

I notice the stats in the article mention Vietnam as a source of "Chinese" immigrants (Vietnam - 41,230).

While I'm aware that many immigrants from Vietnam are Overseas Chinese, I was just wondering whether such people (Sino-Vietnamese) are normally considered "Chinese" or "Vietnamese"? I ask because according to the article on Hoa, 'Along with ethnic Vietnamese, the Hoa are usually referred to as "Vietnamese" by the Mainland Chinese and Taiwanese.'

User:Bathrobe 7 April 2006

My viet-chinese friends consider themselves chinese... --Sumple (Talk) 07:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I suspect it might depend on the person whether they consider themselves Chinese or Vietnamese. However, the safe answer is that they are both Vietnamese and Chinese, i.e. Vietnamese-Chinese, and thus that suffices for the purpose of this article. enochlau (talk) 08:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
They are Chinese-Vietnamese Australian.

[edit] this page suxorz

omfg not enough info on teh history bit i cant reach my 1k word limit for my phuckin history assignment and Duel me

  • This comment was added at 22:36 AEST by User:Duel me. I reverted it at 22:40 with the comment "write your own assignment; don't plagiarise - revert gratuitous comment". User:JSIN chose to reinstate the comment twice (User Blnguyen also removed), the second time the reinstatement was with the comment "revert - it commented that there wasn't enough info in history and suggested that editors expand it". I think User:JSIN is being excessively charitable in his remarks. Wikipedians priorities are not driven by the needs of high-school wanna-be plagiarists, or at any rate mine aren't. User:Duel me's remarks were not in good faith or constructive - they are not a useful addition to this talk page but I will accede to the wishes of User:JSIN that they stay here. Note I still think the {{mess2}} message to User:Duel me was warranted - we do not want irrelevant messages on talk pages. --A Y Arktos\talk 09:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tagging of the section on Chinese Australian communities today

The section on Chinese Australian communities today is poorly expressed, in particular using cliches and stereotypes. Reliable sources are required. I have provided comments visible in the edit view as to what I found difficulties with - assertions about Hanson triggering political involvement, scholastic achievement, focal points of the community, ...--A Y Arktos\talk 10:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

What? what's wrong with Chinatowns being a focal point of the Chinese community?? I'd like to see some evidence to the contrary! --Sumple (Talk) 11:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
what is a "focal point" - does the term mean anything? I am not proposing evidence to the contrary, I am requesting sources. "Providing sources for edits is mandated by Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability, which are policy. This means that any material that is challenged and has no source may be removed by any editor."--A Y Arktos\talk 11:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
  • To assist in consideration of what a "focal point" might or might not be, see Focal point dab page, and Focus. Wiktionary does not help much at wiktionary:focal point with definition 2 as "the centre of any activity". I assume this definition is what is intended in this article but it shows how vague the term is - "any activity"?!? Certainly not all activities, nor even many activites that might provide a focus for the community, for example politics or schools. To be used meaningfully you need to say what is in scope - focal point for eating out by the community, banking, ...? Generalisations need to be avoided - for example, do Chinatowns across Australia incorporate these activities as a focus for the chinese community in that city?--A Y Arktos\talk 01:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to see some referencing too, as most of that section seems to be info obtained from gross generalisations. For example, Chinese kids are good at school. Most Chinese immigrants can't speak English etc etc. French line 14:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] use of the word "Prominent" in describing some notorous figures

in the section Prominent Chinese Austalians, it is a mix of famours and notorous figures - see below:

Andrew Chan: drug lord, sentenced to death Victor Chang: heart surgeon Si Yi Chen: drug smuggler ...

I'd suggest to take out teh notorous ones or at least separate them from really prominent ones - i.e. people who have made contributions and not destructions to the society.

"prominent" means "sticking out". I'd say andrew chan is quite prominent. --Sumple (Talk) 03:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teminology

I noticed the phrases Chinese-born and Australian-born used in the article. Isn't that a grammatical error? If anything it should be china-born and australia-born because it's referring to locations of birth instead of cultures. French line 14:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

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