Portal talk:China

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This article is a former featured portal candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed, you may resubmit the article for featured portal status.

China has had a portal peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this portal.

This talk page is for the Portal about China. Ensure this portal's details are listed in the Portal directory. For discussion about Portals generally, please see the WikiProject on Portals.

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Contents 1 Comment 2 List of Chinese inventions 3 Subportals 4 Portal consistency discussion moved 5 ACSIP 6 Color 7 recent changes 8 Stop 9 Substantive dispute? 10 Old version for reference 11 For readers 12 Font 13 More objections 14 Header-box color 15 Civility 16 AQu01rius 17 Tasks you can do 18 Anniversaries 19 Vote on Portal:China theme color 19.1 Red 19.2 Yellow 19.2.1 Both 19.3 Other 19.3.1 Gold 19.4 Comments 20 Portal color 21 CJK stroke order project need graphists contributers

[edit] Comment

Hmmm, what is the difference between

#redirect [[Wikipedia:Wikiportal/People's Republic of China]]

and

{{Wikipedia:Wikiportal/People's Republic of China}}

? I find it interesting that the second form even works, since it isn't really a template. Of course editing won't work as expected with the second form, yes that must be it. -MarSch 14:35, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of Chinese inventions

Dear all, I just started a new page named List of Chinese inventions to have a centralized, verified resource for all major inventions/discoveries by Chinese. Please join me to make it better and link it!

Thanks! --Leo 08:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subportals

I don't think it's a good idea to include subportals here that don't exist yet, especially since there is a formal process we have to go through to propose portals and get them approved (Wikipedia:Portal/Proposals). Ideogram 17:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal consistency discussion moved

This discussion is taking place at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China#China portals consistency. Ideogram 12:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ACSIP

An article about ACSIP, a Canadian organization for ethnic-Chinese IT people, has been nominated for deletion, in part because of a lack of verifiable sources. If you can expand the article, perhaps with the help of verifiable Chinese-language sources, or create articles about some other groups mentioned in the article, that would be good. TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 20:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Color

This color is horrendous. Can you please explain why you changed it? --Ideogram 01:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] recent changes

Please keep in mind that when I worked on these portals, I wanted a consistent look-and-feel across all the China-related portals, Portal:China, Portal:Hong Kong, Portal:Taiwan, Portal:People's Republic of China, and Portal:Republic of China. All of these were modelled on Portal:History of Science, which you should note is already a featured portal.

Note also that this portal is about the Chinese history and civilization, not the country, so a browsebarcountry is not appropriate. --Ideogram 01:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Two pictures is excessive. Are you going to answer any of my objections to your changes here before you make more changes I object to? --Ideogram 18:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay first of all, I did not expect anyone to post in the Portal discussion page because this page was abandoned for a while. So please be reasonable.

- For the orange color, I will change it later. But I do not think red is appropriate for box-header background because it's heavily related to the present day People's Republic of China Government.

Red was significant in Chinese culture for thousands of years before the PRC and Communism existed. --Ideogram 19:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Yellow is as significant as red in Chinese history and culture. Having the PRC and China portal with the exact same color is simply not good. An alternative is needed. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 22:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

No, yellow is the color of the Emperor. Red is the color of happiness, e.g. weddings, "hongbao", and so on. Originally I wanted all the China-related portals to be red, but I was unable to convince all the interested parties that consistency was desirable. Regardless, we're not going to settle this by arguing between ourselves, we need other editors to offer their opinions. --Ideogram 23:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

- I don't think it's very correct to model a national portal to a science portal.

I thought your goal was to create a featured portal, not make all national portals look the same. And this is not a national portal, Portal:People's Republic of China is a national portal. --Ideogram 19:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I meant "geographic" portal. This is a geographic portal, and making all China portals look identical to the science portals is not a great idea. When modeling something, it's better to model examples in the related subject fields. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 22:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

All the portals are maintained by different people. Do you really want to take on the job of enforcing consistency between portals? If you promise to do this work yourself, I'll be happy to let you, but if you leave, someone else (possibly me) will make changes without regard for consistency between portals. --Ideogram 23:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

- I think browsebar country is very appropriate here, because these categories contains sub-categories of China as a civilization, also contains infomation on Taiwan and Hong Kong if you actually looked inside.

I was very careful to separate politics, government, and economy links out into Portal:People's Republic of China but we have those links in browsebar country. The point is the political distinction between PRC/China is not like that in other countries and it should be treated differently. --Ideogram 19:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

- I don't think two pictures is "excessive". If you looked at other country's portals, you will tell that all of them uses two or more pictures. (Portal:India, Portal:Japan, Portal:Germany, Portal:USA etc.), so it should not be a problem. The problem is to format it so that it looks good.

Please correct me if I am wrong. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind if you are willing to discuss your changes. And if we disagree, we should appeal to other editors to try to get a consensus. --Ideogram 19:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

For future reference, you should always watchlist the pages you intend to edit because if people want to discuss your changes they will say so on the talkpages. --Ideogram 19:31, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I do watchlist, but I don't stare at my watchlist :) And the reason I did not post here is because a) there was no one here for 3 months b) I was nowhere close being finished. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 22:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The point is that when you make changes to a page, people who have objections will comment on that talkpage, and if you don't want to piss them off you need to respond. People who aren't nice will simply revert your changes. --Ideogram 23:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stop

I don't think you understand. I put a great deal of time and energy into these portals, and every time you change something without consulting me you stomp all over my work. I often had good reasons for what I did and you are ignoring them. As long as you are willing to discuss I am happy to explain to you why I did things a certain way, but you are not waiting for us to resolve old issues before creating new ones. This is rude, to say the least.

So far I have been very patient and not touched the Portal because edits in defiance of consensus are not productive, but if you do not exercise the same restraint I will get the Portal protected. --Ideogram 23:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If you have legitimate concerns on any of my formatting adjustment, list it and I will discuss with you. If your just annoyed that I am ruining your work, you are violating the basic principle of Wikipedia which is that anyone can edit.

Please note that I am not deleting any of your work (which is why I have not informed you, I apologize if you take offense to that, but remember that this is a public encyclopedia, and we are all here to improve pages). I am simply re-arranging & re-formatting contents to bring it into the next stage.

The last time you edited this portal is on August 1, 2006. If you are not making any progress, you should not be stopping others from improving the page. Thank you.

If you want to request the portal to be protected because somebody is making progress, go ahead, I have no objections :) AQu01rius (User • Talk) 00:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I "stopped making progress" because I was happy with the result. You think all your edits are "progress", I do not. You do not have the right to ignore my opinion. If you think you have the right to make these edits without my consent, why shouldn't I revert your edits without your consent? Wikipedia editors must try to achieve consensus.

I guarantee you this Portal will be protected soon. You can either discuss with me now or later, your choice. What I'm trying to tell you is that at this point we need to reach an agreement on the changes you have already made before making new ones. --Ideogram 00:48, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

You have not answered my objections to your previous changes. I don't want to list a thousand objections and try to discuss them all at once, I want to discuss them one at a time. What is your hurry? Do you really want me to start an edit-war to force you to slow down? --Ideogram 02:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Substantive dispute?

Maybe I'm just missing something totally obvious, but what (aside from the red/yellow color issue) are the substantive points that are in dispute here? Kirill Lokshin 04:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

At this time my biggest objection is the use of browsebarcountry. --Ideogram 05:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you're probably right here; the links from {{browsebarcountry}} are pretty useless here, as they lead mostly to category redirects or what appear to be basically unused categories. It's not a template that was intended for a topic of this nature. Kirill Lokshin 05:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Just wandered in from the note Ideogram posted at the Pump. Given the conversations above, it looks like Ideogram is practicing some page ownership, and we have a run-of-the-mill edit war that would probably be best resolved via a straw poll. | Mr. Darcy talk 04:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I invited you here for your objective opinion on how to make a better portal, and your opinion of me is irrelevant, as long as it does not affect your objectivity. Note that I have not touched any part of the Portal since AQu01rius started editing, precisely because I wish to avoid an edit war. --Ideogram 05:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

You didn't "invite" anyone here; this page is not your house or property or even your individual work, but a page on Wikipedia open to all. I also didn't offer an opinion of you, but of your behavior all over this talk page, which is a textbook example of page ownership, and that's before we address your personal attacks against Aqu01rius. You should consider taking a step away from this particular page for a while if you can't discuss matters with another editor without calling him a "goddamned newbie" and a "little high school punk." | Mr. Darcy talk 04:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You are a little out of date. The issue is settled, as far as I am concerned. --Ideogram 04:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old version for reference

User:Ideogram/portalchina

I will let other editors express their opinions as to which parts of my version are better, which parts of AQu01rius' version are better, and which parts should be changed to something else entirely.

I will say that my primary goal in editing this Portal was consistency between it and Portal:People's Republic of China, Portal:Republic of China, Portal:Hong Kong, and Portal:Taiwan, and I will expect that any changes agreed on here will need to be extended to them. Consistency with other geographic portals was not my goal at that time, although I can see it would be valuable and if consensus is that it can be achieved I will not argue against it. --Ideogram 05:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think consistency should be a primary concern here; each portal is different, and should be laid out to best present its particular content, not to slavishly copy the "parent" portal.

As for this portal, I would suggest:

• Removing the "News" section; it'll be extremely difficult to find news items that don't have some explicit political connection to either the PRC or the ROC.
• Expanding the "Topics" section significantly; there are an enormous variety of historical, geographical, and cultural topics of great importance that could be given here.
• Adding another rotating content section. The original selected biography isn't a bad idea; another approach would be to go with selected anniversaries, but that's more time-consuming to set up.

Kirill Lokshin 05:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no objections on removing the News section. I intended to work on the anniversaries section (which can replace the box where news section is currently occupying) once all issues are resolved.

For the topic section, it is exactly what I thought about, in which I added the "History" and "Geography" field. I will continue to expand this section.

Thank you for the comment =)! AQu01rius (User • Talk) 08:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] For readers

I just read through the comments again and organized out the general objections of Mr. Ideogram .

Before I get into the topic though, I just want to remind Mr. Ideogram that "You think all your edits are "progress", I do not.", "I "stopped making progress" because I was happy with the result.", "I don't think you understand. I put a great deal of time and energy into these portals, and every time you change something without consulting me you stomp all over my work", "I will get the Portal protected", "I guarantee you this Portal will be protected soon. You can either discuss with me now or later, your choice.", ""Give up and let him take over the Portal?" are all slight violations of the WP:OWN policy.

But those issues are irrelevant, let's get into the actual discussion :)

Ideogram's Objections

1. I want a consistent look-and-feel across all the China-related portals.

Mr. Kirill Lokshin responded to this objection below.

2. The header color under Portal:China/box-header should be red. It is a significant color in Chinese culture for thousands of years before the PRC and Communism existed.

One of the basic principles on writing a article is to "think of the reader". I know that red is the color of good luck and happiness, but can every readers appreciate that? For most foreign readers, red is almost universally associated with Red China. For Taiwanese readers, it may be slightly offensive and WP:NPOV, even though that was not the purpose at all. In this case, an alternative color is needed.

3. Is Browsebar country template appropriate here?

Apart from :Category:Politics of China and Category:Government of China, the rest of the other categories contains comprehensive lists of subject knowledge of China, and presents China as a culture. Should we abandoned the majority of the good resources there because of the few exceptions? If that's the case, I have no objections.

Given that there's an exhaustive listing of categories already present in its own section, I don't really think that using the problematic template here is necessary; better to just go with something entirely uncontroversial than to use it merely for the benefit of another link to the categories in question. Kirill Lokshin 21:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 01:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

4. Two pictures in /Intro is excessive.

I explained my case on this one very clearly.

I'd avoid having them both on one margin, though. Kirill Lokshin 21:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 01:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

5. The old portal is complete. There's no need to change.

For this one, I would leave it to other editors :) What I need to say is that, this portal is far from complete. It requires daily maintenance and extensive expansions in areas before it can become a featured portal candidate, which should the ultimate goal.

AQu01rius (User • Talk) 08:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I am perfectly capable of explaining any of my opinions that I think are important. For now I think you should concentrate on explaining your opinions to those third parties that disagree with you. Trying to convince Kirill Lokshin that we should use browsebarcountry would be a good start. --Ideogram 08:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

No need :) It's a minor issue. I agree on reverting it back to Portal browsebar. I also removed the news section, and replaced with it "Anniversaries for {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}" as the third rotating content.AQu01rius (User • Talk) 00:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Font

The tiny font in the China topics box is unreadable. --Ideogram 06:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, all topics section display that like that. Portal:Germany/Topics, Portal:United_States/Topics, Portal:Australia/Topics, Portal:India/Topics, Portal:Indonesia/Topics, Portal:Latin_America/Topics and goes on. It's the proper format :) AQu01rius (User • Talk) 07:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

"I don't think consistency should be a primary concern here". Does anyone else have an opinion? --Ideogram 17:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Small font is usually needed when the list of topics grows to a certain (large) size; whether that'll happen here, I don't know. Kirill Lokshin 18:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Ideogram, not just Geographic portals, but all topic sections have small fonts. For this objection, I recommend you to go to Talk:Main_Page to express your concern :)

The topic section will grow large. There's countless topics related to China. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I hope you are checking to see that the topics being linked to are actually high-quality articles. Naval history of China, for instance, is pretty pathetic. --Ideogram 18:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More objections

The pictures in the Categories box are too small to be useful. Either put the Categories box back down at the bottom with big pictures, or remove the small pictures.

There is no need for pictures in the Related portals box.

This is a portal on the en wiki, links to other wikipedias from within the portal are not necessary. --Ideogram 18:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Using pictures for related portals is extremely widespread; I think they bring a bit of color to the layout. Your mileage may vary, of course.

As far as linking to other Wikipedias, they're not necessary, as you state; but the real question is whether they're useful to the reader. At the very least, I'd be surprised if there weren't a link to the Chinese Wikipedia somewhere in the portal. Kirill Lokshin 18:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone looking for anothe language Wikipedia can see it on wikipedia.org. I think it is highly unlikely they would have gotten here without seeing that first. --Ideogram 18:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much nobody visits wikipedia.org; most hits come in directly through en.wikipedia pages, so it's quite possible for someone to find the portal without ever seeing a list of non-English Wikipedias. Kirill Lokshin 18:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't like the subcategorization of Related Portals. There's only six of them.

Portal:Himalayas is not relevant here.

Strictly speaking, Military History in WikiProjects doesn't link to a WikiProject, but a task force within the Military History WikiProject.

There's no need for the boxes around the whole page and the browsebar. --Ideogram 18:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

1. Good point.
2. Mmm, I would think it's related enough to be included.
3. That seems a bit too pedantic; I would think the link to the task force is more useful than linking to the main project, in this case.
4. Both styles are popular; I don't think there's any reason to advocate one over the other, so just go with whatever editors' personal preferences are. Kirill Lokshin 18:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Himalayas is not relevant? Please actually look inside the portal and then try again :)

Besides the Mandarin Chinese portal, the rest of the included Chinese languages portals are not included in the main page, but in the very bottom page of List of Wikipedias. These minor Wikipedias needs to be addressed, see the example of Portal:India. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Header-box color

Mr. Ideogram, "My preferred color" is not a reason, and once again violates WP:OWN policy. If you "prefer" red, you must convince the editors that viewers of this portal will not relate red color to People's Republic of China, the ruling government of China. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You must convince others that your personal preference for yellow outweighs my preference for red. --Ideogram 18:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Meh. AQu01rius has a decent point here, actually, as a purely red portal will have PRC connotations, particularly to English-language readers.

(One way around this would be to use something other than white for a background (c.f. Portal:War, which has more than one color prominently featured.) Kirill Lokshin 18:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Civility

I am sick and tired of AQu01rius' snide and demeaning comments. You're a little high school punk new to Wikipedia, and I have had it up to here with your attitude. Read WP:CIVIL. --Ideogram 19:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Who the hell do you think put in all the work on Taiwan which you are now so pleased to nominate as a good article? Go back and read the edit history you goddamned newbie. --Ideogram 19:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Umm? I have no idea what you're talking about, but the personal attacks are frankly unacceptable. Kirill Lokshin 19:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Every thing I have said about him is factual, except for "punk", which I apologize for. --Ideogram 19:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

That a personal attack is true doesn't justify it in the least. I would suggest that, if you're not willing to maintain some minimal level of civility, it might be best for you to take a break from editing this portal. Kirill Lokshin 19:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You don't think he violated WP:CIVIL, I think he did. I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. --Ideogram 19:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I must admit that I was amused by how the heading goes with the following content. I responded to your addressed "personal issues" on your talk page. Please read Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks.

To apply your own quote, "I invited you here for your objective opinion on how to make a better portal, and your opinion of me is irrelevant" :)

Let me say this once more: We are here to improve pages. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AQu01rius

Don't get me wrong, he has done some great work and is continuing to do great work. But I think he needs to demonstrate an ability to work with others. --Ideogram 19:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This talk page is for the Portal about China. Irrelevant issues should be addressed on talk pages =) I would recommend some maturity though, as this is a public encyclopedia. Cheers AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

That maturity crack is exactly the kind of thing that will get you in trouble with short-tempered editors. And there are a lot of short-tempered editors here. --Ideogram 19:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tasks you can do

That redlink under Portal is almost certainly not what you want. --Ideogram 20:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

: Those are Wikipedia:Requested_articles. If they are not red-linked, the article exists and they are therefore not requested articles :) AQu01rius (User • Talk) 20:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

"Portal: Fill in anniversaries, update Did you know?, suggest Portal:China/Selected articles and pictures/Selected articles and pictures" -- is that what you want? --Ideogram 20:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I misunderstood. It's fixed. Sorry. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 20:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anniversaries

This is for anyone that wants to help out on the Anniversaries section.

1. Visit the Portal:China/Anniversaries page and pick a month. 2. Click on the red link dates. Use "anniversaries on English Wikipedia" to help you on filling in the content. 3. Try to add a image.

Tip: When searching through the "anniversaries on English Wikipedia", filter the search to "Chin" to find China-related anniversaries quickly.

By the time we have all dates filled up, this portal should be ready to be submitted to the Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates for review. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 22:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The anniversaries section should be all dates prior to the establishment of the Republic of China. For ROC and PRC anniversaries, those should go on their respective portal pages not on this geography portal. — Nrtm81 20:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vote on Portal:China theme color

This is an invite to everyone to vote for the theme color of Portal:China. If you prefer another color please add it below and sign your name with four tilde marks. This will be a general concensus. Please respect the majority vote as the accepted theme color for this portal. Note that the portal is a geography portal, NOT a political portal.

Try not to edit other people's comments directly, even to insert things they have said elsewhere. It is confusing. --Ideogram 21:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red

1. — Nrtm81 19:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
2. --Ideogram 20:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
3. Red and a Red in Chinese culture to go along with it. -- Миборовский 15:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
4. (for purely aesthetic reasons) siafu 20:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
5. I think Red is the traditional color for the Han Chinese. At least that is what it was on the old Republican flag. Yellow was for the Manchu. Asiaticus 19:28, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yellow

1. - AQu01rius (User • Talk) 21:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
2. Mr. Darcy talk 22:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC). Red color seems to imply a connection to the PRC, rather than to China the historical/cultural entity.
3. — Nrtm81 07:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC) Changed my vote. I suppose another color isn't so bad, at least it avoids confusion for visitors.

[edit] Both

See the China Portal in French Wikipedia for more detail. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 01:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other

Light Golden Yellow, See Russian Wikipedia for example. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 02:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gold

See Category:Chinese Wikipedians user boxes for example. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

1. I can live with this. --Ideogram 10:56, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
2. Gold is nice - historically, Chinese have always had a strong affinity with Gold, and it's not a partisan color to either the PRC or ROC. And for those of imperialistic tendencies, it used to be the color of the emperors. –- kungming·2 ^(Talk) 07:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
3. — Nrtm81 00:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC) Gold is better than yellow.
4. - AQu01rius (User • Talk) 23:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC) Better alternative is seemingly found.

[edit] Comments

As noted by Nrtm81, this portal is a geography portal, not a political portal. For anyone that's using China portals in other language as a reference, please note that most of them combines geography and politics together.AQu01rius (User • Talk) 21:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Red is used by the ROC as well. Red does not have to mean communism or PRC. It is abundant in Chinese culture. Yellow however, has little connection to Chinese culture except "gold" and it was reserved only for the Emperor. Plus, it's ugly on the portal. The only reason China became a neutral geography portal was over the ROC/PRC issue. I've already noted that anniversaries on Portal:China should not include either ROC/PRC events as that violates NPOV. — Nrtm81 23:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Red has a strong association with communism that is recognized the world over, not just among those with knowledge of China. In the United States, and perhaps in other English-speaking countries, the PRC was widely known as "Red China" for at least 25 years after the communists' takeover. The connection between "red" and "communism" is much more widely recognized than the connection between "red" and "Chinese culture," despite the strength of the latter. | Mr. Darcy talk 00:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I know the significance of red, but do we expect foreign readers to be aware of that as much as us (Chinese)? The average viewer will associate  red  with the communism.

I do not "prefer"  yellow , but talking with some foreign viewers, I have a impression that a lot of them associate China historically with yellow dragon. If there's an better alternative colour, that would be great. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 01:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the yellow theme takes getting used to (I already am fine with it, since I changed my vote). It certainly looks better than the theme colors used in China portals of the French, Russian version. Also, now that AQu01rius mentioned it, the red color CAN be misleading to visitors since they might directly think the portal is about the PRC. The yellow color distracts this biased thought and draws sharper attention to the disambiguation text at the top. This is just how I see it though. — Nrtm81 19:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that red could lead to the wrong conclusions. Yellow or gold seem like more "neutral" colors, though it may bring back memories of the ancient monarchies. –- kungming·2 ^(Talk) 07:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps someone would be up to the task of creating Red in Chinese culture? -- 我♥中國 07:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Well... I don't really think it's a article material. It may end up with a merge tag as the significance of Red in Chinese culture is explained in the Red article. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 02:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal color

Since this is a geography-only portal, it does not make sense to have the page in the exact same style to the Portal:People's Republic of China. However, we can place the red color differently. Click here for example 1

Or we can use the red header for just the disambiguation text. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks good, you should change it. Artaxiad 16:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CJK stroke order project need graphists contributers

The CJK stoke order project already provide about one and half thousand Stroke order images. The project is the only one on the web to provide such stroke order images in all the 3 stroke order schools: Traditional, Simplified, and Japanese. All this under free licences.

This is done with an high quality, which allow users to use those images for stroke order teaching/learning, and for calligraphic teaching/learning as well. Images are already use by several wikiversity and Wikibooks, and also use by the free HanDeDict dictionary.

We already had set up our protocols, a Stroke order article, and a 214 radicals page to allow every graphist to join us and contribute. We also have an historical approach, encouraging to expand the Ancient Chinese characters co-project.

Give us an hand...

All this large graphic task is currently take only by an hand of 4 French users, one Japanese, one English user who upload some image each week, and we need further graphic help. Japanese graphists are especially welcome to join or to set up a new Japanese team. All volunteers are encourage to contribute first to expand the 214 radicals. Each English contributers and Each upload is Welcome !. Yug (talk) 14:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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